I have used neither and would like some input on what to buy first.I do san me and damascus knives along with mono steel. And might as well say in still using a 1x30 belts sander so might as well throw that into the mix 2x72 might be the way to go.im a hobby guy but do sell some for now. Thanks for any input.
Powerhammer or press
- Thread starter Marty
- Start date
Marty, a 2X72 grinder is BY FAR the most important thing you need since you don't have one..... yet.
I concur a press is more neighbor friendly - by far! The Coal Iron 16 ton press is a nice press, and I prefer the 16+ with 5 hp. The only difference between the regular 16 ton vs 16+ ton is the 2 hp 1750 rpm motor vs a 5 hp 3600 rpm motor. This doubling of motor speed doubles the flow from the pump (same pump) giving the ram more speed (not more power). Both use a 4" ram at 2550 psi giving a full 16 ton. The Coal Iron 12 ton press uses only 3" ram at 2550 psi which gives only 9 ton, NOT the 12 ton it's advertised.
You will LOVE the press.
I concur a press is more neighbor friendly - by far! The Coal Iron 16 ton press is a nice press, and I prefer the 16+ with 5 hp. The only difference between the regular 16 ton vs 16+ ton is the 2 hp 1750 rpm motor vs a 5 hp 3600 rpm motor. This doubling of motor speed doubles the flow from the pump (same pump) giving the ram more speed (not more power). Both use a 4" ram at 2550 psi giving a full 16 ton. The Coal Iron 12 ton press uses only 3" ram at 2550 psi which gives only 9 ton, NOT the 12 ton it's advertised.
You will LOVE the press.
jmforge
Well-Known Member
The guys at Coal Iron told me that the 16+ would probably be better for damascus because you get on and off of the billet more quickly, so less loss of heat theoretically. I think that the type of die would matter just as much all things being equal. 16 tons on the full width of a 3 inch wide flat die is going to act differently than 16 tons on a drawing or fullering die. The one advantage of a hammer may be that you do a lot of things on one set of dies, say a set of "California drawing" dies where you have a flat center with beveled edges. With a press, you might need two or three to do things efficiently. But with those, you can do some cool things. On my old press, I used a wide flat bottom and narrow flat top to set the choil/ricasso on hidden tang blades among other things.
I agree I would like the 16+ better, but from what I can read on the specs the ONLY difference is the change from a 2hp 1750 rpm motor to a 5 hp 3600 rpm motor. $1100 is a LOT for only the motor change.
When you talk with them next time ask about what are the differences between the 16 and 16+ other than motor. The 5hp motor does use a magnetic starter rather than just the OFF/ON switch used on the 2hp motor. There might be more changes, if so I'd be interested it differences.
I ordered their claimed 12 ton press but wasn't happy with the 9 ton rating (only 8 ton in my case since they had set the pressure too low) so changed to a 4" cylinder and dropped the psi down a tad so I wasn't overstressing the frame. This change gives me the same hydraulic system speed as the 16 ton press and I don't really find a problem with slower speed. Remember, when you make a press, lift the die to move the billet, then down for next press the die is only moved half inch up at max. That's <2 seconds between each press. The 16+ with it's 4 IPS is slightly <1 second. I have played around with changing to a 3600 rpm motor on my press, but have not felt the need for the extra speed, other than "I want to" {g}
When you talk with them next time ask about what are the differences between the 16 and 16+ other than motor. The 5hp motor does use a magnetic starter rather than just the OFF/ON switch used on the 2hp motor. There might be more changes, if so I'd be interested it differences.
I ordered their claimed 12 ton press but wasn't happy with the 9 ton rating (only 8 ton in my case since they had set the pressure too low) so changed to a 4" cylinder and dropped the psi down a tad so I wasn't overstressing the frame. This change gives me the same hydraulic system speed as the 16 ton press and I don't really find a problem with slower speed. Remember, when you make a press, lift the die to move the billet, then down for next press the die is only moved half inch up at max. That's <2 seconds between each press. The 16+ with it's 4 IPS is slightly <1 second. I have played around with changing to a 3600 rpm motor on my press, but have not felt the need for the extra speed, other than "I want to" {g}
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jmforge
Well-Known Member
My requirements are forge weld a 1.5 x 3. x 6 billet without half of it ending up on the floor as scale and then draw it out to 2 inches wide and 1/8 thick for a gyuto. Then do the same with a 3/4 to 1 inch round bar of W2. A 33/34 pound Anyang would do most of those things, but it probakly wouldnt be grat at the 1.5 x 3 billet initially. That would like require the 55/68. Problem is that both are MUCH more expensive than they were prior to the China trade war as are all hammers (remember the old days when you could get an Iron Kiss 50 for $3800 and a 110 Say Mak for like $9500?) and the 33/34 is probably the only one that would be even remotely "neighbor friendly."
Travis Fry
Well-Known Member
Spend your first big money on a 2x72 with variable speed. Don't bother with single speed. Don't bother with step pulleys.
To answer your other question though, both a power hammer and a press have their place in the shop. If you have room, space, and funds for both, get both. If you can only get one, get the press. It's slower for drawing but more versatile with less of a learning curve. You get more precision, more control, less noise, and less speed with a press.
jmforge
Well-Known Member
One other possible advantage to the regular 2hp 16 ton is that it runs on 110v 20a power.
Gliden07
Well-Known Member
Your gonna get a million responses to that question. That said, set your budget (be realistic) your not going to get a quality grinder for $500! If you piece one together (dependent on what you can source) $1200 to $1500 is lower end after that skys the limit! Sit down figure what you want for features and extras but don't go crazy!! There were things I wanted that I couldn't afford and I have never used and haven't missed! No matter what brand you get make sure you get 11/2" tooling arms! That is a standard for all quality grinders! Another suggestion is to get a frame with the motor integrated into the frame if your budget allows get at least a 2HP motor with a VFD. I bought a Reeder and it has the ability to go to Horizontally. Lots of other good choices out there now though. And if it hasn't already been said there's a quote that floats around here "BUY ONCE CRY ONCE"! Have fun looking for your new toy!!
fitzo
Well-Known Member
The three names I see crop up repeatedly as the "cadillacs" are Reeder, Northridge, Wuertz.
My suggestion: buy a high quality variable speed base system with a platen and a contact wheel and accessorize as the money permits and need requires. A good grinder is worth its weight in gold to a knifemaker.
Another option is build your own. The owner of this forum and USAKnifemakers.com has both plans and pre-builds of a quite functional grinder based on tubing.
My suggestion: buy a high quality variable speed base system with a platen and a contact wheel and accessorize as the money permits and need requires. A good grinder is worth its weight in gold to a knifemaker.
Another option is build your own. The owner of this forum and USAKnifemakers.com has both plans and pre-builds of a quite functional grinder based on tubing.
Jesse Latham
Well-Known Member
Not really. A lot of really great grinders do have 1.5" tool arms. My two Bader III"s have the much maligned 1.25" arms. I've never seen a problem with them, and half of mine are aluminum.
Gliden07
Well-Known Member
I'm not saying there is a problem with different size arms my contention is that if you buy a grinder with 1-1/2" tooling arms you have a lot more options for tooling/accessories. And for the most part you can adapt other companies components much easier.
I want to buy
Yes I have seen that I want to buy once