Thoughts on using jigs

C

csalt09

Well-Known Member
Just wondering what you guys think about using grinding jigs. Would it benefit or hinder your grinding skills? I built one but never really got into it but now I'm making more knives and selling them. I can see how they could help with speeding up production but I'm worried my skill level would not improve as much as doing all free hand.
 
I've seen some people just use a jig for false edges and others use them for everything. There's nothing really wrong with using it if it speeds your process up but you are correct in thinking it will not improve your freehand grinding. Eventually you will have to grind something that you can't make a jig for, so I wouldn't walk away from freehand grinding altogether. I don't use any jigs. Never have. When you start making anything from scratch a portion of your time goes to fixing errors. As I've improved that time has shrunk considerably. Hope some more experienced guys chime in.
 
I think using a jig is ok for getting started, but it can be limiting later on. I made a jig for a specific design that I make a lot of, but it was mainly for hogging a bunch of metal out for my pre heat treat grind. I could hog it out all willy nilly and get my plunges matching without even looking. After heat treat I switched to hand grinding to finish it. What ended up happening was the hand grinding felt easier over time until I finally felt confident enough to skip the jig all together. If I were going to sit down and make 20 of them at once, I might use the jig just to save time, but for 1 or 2 blades, I just hand grind them now.
 
yeah, I'm doing three or four at a time so I'm kind of on the fence. I can definitely see using it for 20 blades. Thanks for the comments, sounds like it would be best used just to knock out a big run of the same model.
 
I think using a jig is ok for getting started
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My thought process is just the opposite. I think that once a person learns to grind, then using a jig for repetative or "special" situations is OK. To specifically answer the question, I think a grinding jig very much hinders an individual who is learning to grind.

The problem I've always had with grinding jigs is the limitations they impose......especially for someone who learned to grind with one. I've had a number of people show up at my place for a class, who started with jigs, and had not even the slightest idea of how to grind if they didn't have the jig (I don't allow folks to use them if they are here for classes). Moreso, most grinding jigs limit an individual to a very specific type(s) of profiles that can be ground with them. That's not a blanket statement, simply because I know I've not seen every available grinding jig out there, however, I have seen enough to know that the reason many start with a jig is because they lack the guidance or patience to learn freehand grinding. Grinding is just like any other skill....it takes time and practice. The up side is that once a person is capable of freehand grinding, theres no blade shape or profile they can't grind. Finally, I believe that grinding jigs are often thought of in what I consider the wrong manner.....they are something that should provide assistance.....not something a person becomes dependent upon.
 
I'm a total newb, but speaking as a newb, and I'm very happy I learned to freehand grind. In the beginning I approached grinding with a lot of frayed nerves. I chased my grinds all over the place and it was frustrating. But as steep as the learning curve is, it turns out that that the hill really isn't all that tall. It's like any skill that depends heavily upon muscle memory and mechanics- like shooting. Once you learn how to stand, breathe, and proper trigger control, you can shoot pretty much any gun well. It's hard to learn and it takes practice, but it comes quickly if you stick with it and establish consistency. Grinding was initially difficult. About a year in, it's kind of boring. Now I wish my grinder ran faster.

I have no doubt that jigs can produce better results more quickly, but avoiding the learning curve only means you never get over that hump. If you rely on jigs, what do you do when you need to grind two intersecting tapers with no plunge lines, like on a kitchen knife? If you want a full distal taper, but you also want the entire bottom of the bevel to be the same thickness, from the heel to the tip- with no visible plunge lines and a full height grind, how do you do that with a jig? I'm sure there's a way- knife factories do it somehow.

I also can't see spending all of that time and effort making a bunch of jigs. To me it's easier to spend that time learning to grind freehand.

Having said all of that, I'm not against jigs in the slightest. I don't even use a tool rest, but I bought one that articulates so that I can begin working with compound angles on fittings.



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I honestly believe that if it wasn't for jigs less people would attempt knife making. Be coming proficient in free grinding is a daunting experience and not to many people are willing to pony up for the big toys with out there being a glimmer of hope. For many the jig is that hope. However there is a plateau with using jigs and if you haven't learned or have let your free hand skills get rusty the task of making custom 1 offs becomes an horrific experience. Personally the vast majority of my knives are 1 offs, but when it comes to making a run of one my usual styles you better believe I use a jig. it's all about working smarter not harder.
 
Good points.

I think if I had a design that I made tons of, a jig would make a lot of sense. Even if it was only used for hogging off a lot of meat and then the fine tuning was done freehand.


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i have tried using jigs with frustrating results... i find that scribing lines and using a work rest has been the most successful way to get a predictable (within a range!) result. i don't consider myself a particularly strong grinder, so take this all with a grain of salt. this is coming from a weekend/one-off guy, though so keep that in mind too.
 
the use of jigs is just applying the old phrase "Word smarter, not harder." if you are a machinist or cabinet maker, and need to produce ?? identical pieces, you make jigs so all holes, cuts, countersinks/bores are in the same location. would a machinist tasked with making a bevel 0.5" wide with a 10 degree angle set up a series of jigs or trust the old Mk 1. eyeball and cut the bevels by hand?
 
For making identical pieces, there's no competition between freehand and jigs. There's no way to argue against that.

Straw Man Argument Alert!.....

Question: As a hand made knifemaker, is identical the desired result? Let's go past jigs: For identical results, why not have every piece cut by CNC. Is it handmade anymore? Or maybe "handmade" isn't everyone's goal, either. Perhaps a maker is really interested in his own design, not how the work is done. Is a digital print the equal of a darkroom print, if both are done by Ansel Adams? Is it the final image that matters, or that the image was created by the master's hand, one at a time?

It's an age old debate: does the process matter more than the end result? It probably depends on the customer. I'll pay $60 for a "Ken Onion design" knife. Would he make me one by hand for $60? Would he make me one by hand at all? If he did, would I pay more than $60 if the only difference was Ken Onion running the CNC machine instead of Joe the 2nd Shift Machinist? What if Ken Onion made the knife by hand in his garage? That's different, and it has nothing to do with how many millions of copies there are in the world. Not to me.

Okay, back on topic (and preparing for the flames!)

I think I'm better at grinding than making jigs. I know I am, because I don't know how to make jigs at all! I think it would take longer for me to learn how to make jigs than it took to learn how to grind. I'm no machinist. I wish that I was, but it's not a skillset that I have.
 
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I normally set my bevals with a jig,once I get them started I go free hand,I use a jig of my own design and a bubble jig.Jigs are a simple device to ensure accuracy and end up with a end product that is repeatable.I have made knives using lots of methods and I find no fault in any of them as long as the end product is high quality ! If you find a jig distasteful then perhaps you should start freehanding your center lines and get rid of the file jig for squaring up your shoulders.
 
Coming from a woodworking background, I have always used and relied on jigs to produce the best work I could do. Jigs are just another tool to make things easier to complete a task. A tool......nothing less...nothing more. If it makes you a better, more consistent maker then use a jig. If you don't like using jigs then don't. The paying customer could care less how you made their knife. They care about the quality. You are no less of a maker using a jig than not if you produce a good product at the end of the day.
 
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I am in the process of working towards knife making. Adding on to the shop so I have room for new tools and me too. I am planing to start off with a bubble jig hoping it will help me learn to free hand grind. It appears to me that I will use the same actions after I stop using the jig as when I use it. Is there a fault in my thinking? Ed
 
The thought is good, but in reality using a jig is not going to help a person learn how to grind freehand. The reason is that everything from your body postion, to how you hold the steel and move your body is going to be different with a jig versus freehand. Freehand grinding is much more then just grinding....its a combination of visual, sound, and feel. Most importantly its the "muscle memory" you develop.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against anyone using a grinding jig, its just that I've been teaching long enough to know that its one of those "instant gratification" devices, that does more harm then good for anyone wishing to learn how to freehand grind.
 
I learnt to grind freehand no tool rests no lines and no fancy any thing else.This definately comes in very handy if you do the once off blade BUT that being said I am getting to a place where I am planning to start making series so I will start using a jig just to get the uniformity and speed down to a button.

Regards:
Shaun

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Would this be considered using a jig?

[video=youtube;iCtx8VYxUK4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCtx8VYxUK4[/video]
 
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