Water jet prices....

Self Made Knives

Self Made Knives

Well-Known Member
Hey, any of you guys getting blanks cut with a water jet care to share your costs? I've got a design that has cutout areas under the handle, 5 pin holes, and a fairly basic shape, about 8 3/4" long and 1/8" thick. Got 2 local quotes for cutting the blanks. One was $9 ea. and the other was $8.35 ea. That's for a batch of 36 blanks. Does that sound about right? Seemed kind of high to me.

My problem is just the time it takes to get them cut out, milled, and profiled. I just got a batch of 4 up to the profile stage working as efficiently as I could and I'm still averaging about an hour each.
 
That sounds very reasonable to me. My last waterjet job was a full sheet of .156" Ti, (24"x36") and a full sheet of CPM154 for folders.....the waterjet outfit I now use charges a flat $120 per hour.......although I got a PILE of folder parts the cutting costs were $525.00, Ti cost was $700, and the CPM sheet was $435..... I took the time to figure out time and consumables to do the work myself, and saved myself approx $850 by having the parts waterjetted.

The problem I've had with a couple of the waterjet outfits that cater to knifemakers is..... 1. I was getting jerked around and waiting forever to get my parts.....and found out that my order kept getting pushed back for more lucrative jobs. 2. One of the waterjet outfits was highjacking my designs and not only producing them, but was selling blanks made on my design(s).

Personally, I prefer a waterjet outfit that is fairly close by, whom I can sit down with and "iron out" all the "little things" with a design BEFORE they start cutting.....I've been down that road of sending drawings or CAD files, only to have something change slightly in the file transfer from one format to the other.....and got a box of useless parts.
 
That doesn't sound out of line. Don't forget the cost of shipping there and back which you'll save by going local. If you're dealing with that quantity, it's nice not to worry about the consistency.
What's your time worth? If the cost of cutting is less than that, you're ahead. Plus, that's 36 hours that you can devote to the fun stuff, unless cutting profiles is fun for you.
 
Yeah, if you offered me $9/hr to come over and profile blades after work, I'd pass. That's why I was looking into the water jet. I like the design process, I like grinding the bevels, I like working on the handle material, but I hate going from bar stock to a profile, especially in multiples. One of the quotes is from a small company about 5 minutes from where I work that does big commercial sheet metal jobs, guy said he hadn't done any knives yet.

Their machine sits idle a lot and he likes taking in small jobs to keep his guys busy. They were actually cutting out wood team mascot signs when I went by. I showed him my cad drawing and he says no problem. I'll probably try him out, just wanted to be sure that price was in line. I'm hoping that my batch of 4 sell ok (got 2 reserved by coworkers already) and that would just about cover the cost of cutting out the next 36.
 
That's a bit under what I pay currently. But I trust my man like no other. He send back the CAD file four or five times the last to make sure everything was Spot On! I have no worries about him pushing my work back of copying them like Ed has mentioned. The one Water Jetter I had before sent me back my blades in an old heavy paper sack that had Vermiculite in it and put the blades in there wet.

They were caked with surface rust on my stainless and chunks of Vermiculite clumped on:49:. My current man sprays the sheet of steel down with PAM the cooking spray to help prevent rust and dries them and wraps them neatly in the box!:60:

It's the little things that can make a world of DIFF on how much more you will have to do afterwards.
 
Update and a new question. I've got quotes from 3 waterjetters, $8.50, $9, and $9.50. Still seemed like too much, I know, I'm a cheapskate. Then, I found a shop with a laser, and his quote was $3.92 ea. Wow! Half of the water jet. He does have a $150 shop minimum though, but that's ok.

So, new question, is there anything to be concerned with on laser cutting? I asked the guy about decarb at the cut line, and he doesn't think it's an issue on 5/32" material. I've got a 12"x48" sheet of 1095 coming from NJ, so just want to be sure about everything before I pull the trigger.
 
Thanks, I'll add him to my favs, but for this run I've already got $38 shipping from NJSB. If I went with your guy, there would just be too much expense shipping it there and back again plus the $38 already spent. If you can drop ship steel to him it might be a good deal for next time.

I'd like to give the laser guy a try, just wondering if I should be concerned about anything with it.
 
The laser cut pieces will have a heat affected zone on any cut surface, regardless if they cut with nitrogen or oxygen. It's not very thick, so if you're grinding the profile to clean it up afterwards, you'll likely remove it all.

The pin holes will also have a HAZ. If they need any processing(ie slight enlarging or tapping), regular bits won't work. You'll have to either use carbide or abrasive.

The above applies to all heat treatable steels cut with laser.

I am in charge of our laser department, and have cut tool steels for knives for customers (10,000# of material plus one time) as well as myself.

The difference in cost is based on speed. Laser cutting is much faster, but waterjet doesn't leave the heat affected zone. It ultimately depends on what steps you need to do with the blanks afterwards.

Jamie
 
If you just oversize your pattern like a 1/16th you can just clean up any fried steel Like Jamie just mentioned.

I use to get stuff Lazered and then once I found Jay at http://www.waterjettech.com/ContactUs.html from Bubba-San the service,and work was so clean and smooth I will gladly pay the diff and not care because I know it's done right.
 
I normally oversize my stuff about 0.015 and remove the HAZ. But I also run the laser (with an s not a z) so I have complete control and know how it will turn out.

Jamie
 
That's the kind of info I was looking for, thanks. It seems people prefer the water jet, but if I have a local guy that I drive by everyday with a laser and half the price without shipping, kind of hard for me go water jet this time. I'd like to try both for comparison, maybe someday. The laser guy's shop min. of $150 works out about right for a 12"x48" sheet. I've got my sheet nested with two of my designs, yielding about 43 blanks. Only other thing that stinks, laser guy has about a 6 week backlog before he gets to mine.:sad:
 
polarbearforge said:
I normally oversize my stuff about 0.015 and remove the HAZ. But I also run the laser (with an s not a z) so I have complete control and know how it will turn out.

Jamie
Click to expand...

Just checking to see if you were watching?:3: I think it sounds better with a Z.

Ed was talking about getting folder parts cut and I think all of the rest of us were talking about profiling fixed blade patterns.

Believe me there is still room for Oh, S$%Ts! When you open the box with fixed blades. Folders are a different animal with those higher tolerances.
 
I've laser cut liners for linerlocks from 304 stainless and been able to tap the holes with 2-56 threads and I've cut blades from tool steel. I use a carbide reamer to finish holes or I lap it.

Jamie
 
I get laser cut parts 3 times a week, for blades I made drilling jigs for holes, saves on tooling, water jet is expensive yet o so clean if one has a skilled operator I still drill and ream water jet holes but that's just me, 1/16 seems excessive the cut affected zone is less than 25 thou on 3/16 and under stainless tool steel from my guy anyway, the key is having a skilled operator and ask them not to do any grinding on the leave tabs on your blades with there contaminated belts, just my 2 cents your experience may vary
 
I got a sheet of steel from NJSB last week and met with laser guy on 12/23. When I get my batch done, I'll update. Already looking foward to the hours of labor I'll be saving.
 
Anthony,
There are advantages to having stuff done right by you no matter which process. Let us know how it works out for you.
 
I haven't had any water jet cutting done since the one time I did back in 2013. Has anyone or everyone figured out how to actually get a STRAIGHT kerf? And by that I mean knife maker straight and not straight enough to put on a horizontal grinder or mill and clean up the edges?
 
Hello JM,
Any washout from even cutting thicker steels can just be cleaned up in final finish on a 2 x 72" I don't know whom you had do the work, but I've never seen any real problem with washout?
 
JM, are you talking about the kerf being wider on the top side? Like a hole that is 1/4" on top, but tapered inward towards the bottom? I asked about that too when I was getting quotes and a couple of guys say that shouldn't be a problem anymore. Supposedly, some older systems and less skilled operators left tapered kerfs, but they are telling me shouldn't be like that these days.
 
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