Worlds best Which steel and why thread...

[James Terrio]

Thanks for the cryo article, Tracy, I love reading that stuff! Even though I usually only understand maybe half of it

 

[Jerry Bond]

I would have to agree with that old Crazybuzzard .
O-1 and 440C, For hamon lines-1075/1080
If it ain't broke- don't fix it
Like Murph said I am REALLY OLD SCHOOL
Jerry

 

[StephanFowler]

I've never worked with stainless personally but I've been carrying a Les George FM-1 I got at Blade this year, it's using the Carpenter XHP steel.

This thing takes a hell of a fine edge and I've done nothing but strop since I got it, very very nice.

My hands down favorite steel is Aldo's 1084 because there's just enough Vanadium in there to kick the grain size into AWESOME.

 

[bluegrass in ga]

I've been using 5160 for it's ease of forging and heat treat, and if edge quinched properly you can produce a slight hamon in it. BUUUUUT, a couple months back I had the opportunity to buy and use Aldo's 1084, I must say, I've got a new addiction!!!! I just can't put it down!!!

 

[Denny Eller]

I am too new to chime in here, but, that hasn't stopped me before. As a relatively in-experienced maker I think I will start buying CPM154 and Aldo's 1084. I hadn't considered either but this thread has been great for seeing what experienced makers like.

 

[James Terrio]

Stephan, when a respected carbon-steel/forging guy recommends a stock-removal stainless steel, that says a lot about both the maker's open-mindedness and the quality of the steel/HT. High praise indeed.

Denton, like you said, I based my choices on what I read from experienced makers. I've tried a handful of different steels in both carbon and stainless but if you had to choose only one of each type, I don't see how you could go wrong with cpm154 and 1084.

I do like O1 simply because I'm a stock removal guy and O1 is easy to find in precision-ground barstock, which saves a good deal of time. I'm not sure there's a whole lot of difference that most users would notice, between O1 and 1084.

The upshot is, there's an awful lot of really good alloys available to us. I'm sure I'd be happy with a knife made of any of the steels listed in this thread, they're all pretty dang good.

 

[Bennie Lovejoy]

Great thread Boss. I am still a newb so this is just one more learning tool for me to use when i start to think about what other types of steel to use in the future. Thanks guys for all the answers.

 

[deker]

I'm going to answer the questions that I have enough experience to give a decent opinion on here...The ones I'm not answering, well...I'm not answering

Easy one first, What is your favorite steel and why?

Whatever new, awesome pattern welded steel I just finished in the shop. The "why" should be obvious.

If you wanted a knife that the most important feature was edge retention and everything else came a distant second, which steel would you use?

Depends on the type of edge. Some steels such as CPM10v will hold an edge for freaking ever, but that edge can't really be super-fine due to the larger carbides and tear-out you get at the edge. Assuming that a bit of a "toothy" edge is OK...10v.

If you wanted the steel that polished up the best, which steel would you use?

CPM154.

What is the best steel to use for making a straight edge razor in carbon?

Living just a little bit away from butch Harner and taking in all of his experimentation on razors, I'd say that a properly HTed and cryo'd 52100. Reason being, the carbide size in 52100 being as small as it is lends itself to an edge that can be very finely honed but still maintains very good abrasion resistance characteristics.

What is the best steel to use for making a straight edge razor in stainless?

CPM154 has done good for Butch. That said, the jury on this is out until he gets some testing in on the new CPM S35vn. The niobium carbides in this might give it a slight edge (no pun intended).

If you were going to tell a beginning forging knife maker to use a steel, which steel would you recommend?

Hands down, 1084. It is very forgiving in both forging and HT which allows the student to concentrate on the mechanics of shaping the steel rathern than worrying about other details in forging.

If you were going to tell a beginning stock removal knife maker to use a steel, which steel would you recommend?

Depends. Does this beginning stock remover want to do the HT in their own shop? If so, I stand by 1084. If they plan to send it out, 1084/O-1/ATS34/CPM154 are all good choices.

Which steels are best to learn making damascus?

1084/15n20. They stick like glue, are very forgiving in forging, have extremely compatible heat treatments, and contrast very well. Again, reducing variables allows the student to learn the basics and build a solid foundation.

Which is the best steel for a thin fillet knife?

Any good knife steel really. What makes a fillet knife is geometry, not steel choice.

Which is the most economical carbon (forging) steel that makes a decent knife?

I stand by 1084 yet again. If economy is your game, you're probably not spending big $$ on a HT furnace and commercial quenchants. Consequently, you want something forgiving in HT, so 1084 wins for the same reasons it does for beginning makers.

Which is the most economical stainless (stock removal) steel that makes a decent knife?

ATS34 or 440c.

If you were going to make your own forging hammers, which steel is best for that?

I like 4140 for hammers. I have one I made from 4140 that got a proper "industry standard" heat treat and it's the best rebounding hammer I own. That said, if I'm making more hammers, they'll be 4140/15n20 damascus

Which carbon steels work best for the highest contrast in damascus?

Since you didn't specify "high carbon", but just carbon. I'm going with 1018 and pure nickel. The high Mn in 1018 makes it etch very dark and nothing beats nickel for pure "pop". If it must be a knife steel, O2 and pure nickel as long as you manage the amount of nickel so that it won't adversely affect edge retention. If you want to go pure high carbon steel, O2 and L6 would probably get the nod.

How about stainless?

The standard cocktail here is AEBL and 304. I think that some more experimentation in the field of stainless pattern welding is needed though...

Which carbon steels work best for edge retention in damascus?

O1/L6....if it's PROPERLY heat treated....

How about stainless, any different from above?

Same as above. I think some more research and experimentation is warranted here.

Which steel would you recommend for a Professional Chef for a kitchen knife?

Depends on the preferences of the professional chef. That's a call that can't be made without some serious consultation with the chef in question as to his/her preferences in knife performance. Chefs know what they want, and aren't afraid to tell you.

Which steel would you recommend for your buddy to give to his wife as a kitchen knife?

The custom knives in my kitchen are CPM154...

-d

 

[Byron]

For the best corrosion resistance suitable for a knife: 440c

For good corrosion resistance with a little bit more toughness: Ats-34

For a beginning smith: 1080 or 1084

For a beginning stock removal: Same thing as above

For shock resistance: D2

For finish: 440c or any other stainless

For edge retention: the CPM steels

 

[Ironwolf]

"For shock resistance: D2"...
From what I've seen/experienced,unless it's "Dr.D2" (Bob Dozier)doing the HT
(or someone who really has the HT down for it),
D2 tends to be lower on my list of shock resistant steels...
in fact,I've owned 2 that chipped out too easy imo.
Held an edge until the cows came home,but brittle compared to L6,
which I've seen exhibit insane shock resistance.
Another steel I've had ample experience with,and have subjected to
extreme abuse...I mean,"impact tests" is SwampRat's SR101 (52100).
Not too many knives I know of that can take a full-bore beating with
a 2 lb Estwing framing hammer and show barely a ding...
(my SR HRLM)

 

[HELLGAP]

What a pile of questions , I will say cpm154 hands down and 1084/15n20 for damascus fillet knives 154cm and thats It . I have ordered some 52100 cuzz what I read and what people make from it and it has all the right things for the making of a good knife.

 

[mosto]

Easy one first, What is your favorite steel and why?

plain old O2 or 1095


If you wanted a knife that the most important feature was edge retention and everything else came a distant second, which steel would you use?

D2 properly heat treated

If you wanted a knife that was the most corrosion resistant, which steel would you use?

MA5M

If you wanted to make a small axes, hatchet or rescue tool, which steel would you use?

1060

If you wanted the most shock resistant steel for a cutting edge, which steel would you use?

CPM S3V

If you wanted the toughest steel for a folder, which steel would you use?

1095

Would you use the same for a big fixed blade?
Yes, but tempered softer


What about a typical hunter?
the same



If you wanted the best all around "user" (think bushcraft) in a non-stainless steel, which would it be? What about stainless?

O2 is fine, S3v is excellent.
For stainless: budget 12C27, premium RWL 34 is marvellous.


If you wanted the steel that polished up the best, which steel would you use?
RWL 34

What is the best steel to use for making a straight edge razor in carbon?
A2

What is the best steel to use for making a straight edge razor in stainless?
RWL 34

If you were going to tell a beginning forging knife maker to use a steel, which steel would you recommend?

If you were going to tell a beginning stock removal knife maker to use a steel, which steel would you recommend?
O2

Which steels are best to learn making damascus?
02 and 15N20

Which is the best steel for a thin fillet knife?
12C27

Which is the most economical carbon (forging) steel that makes a decent knife?
not experienced in forging...

Which is the most economical stainless (stock removal) steel that makes a decent knife?
O2 is fine!

If you were going to make your own forging hammers, which steel is best for that?
dunno... I can suppose a 1060 series...

Which carbon steels work best for the highest contrast in damascus?
1095, or blue paper
How about stainless?
Stainless have no experience...


Which steel would you recommend for a Professional Chef for a kitchen knife?
RWL 34 for SS, A2 for carbon.

Which steel would you recommend for your buddy to give to his wife as a kitchen knife?
12c27 is the choice for SS kitchen knife. IMO the best for home use.
But I'm planning to do a D2 kitchen knife for me, chisel grind.


But I'm still learning about.

Cheers.

 

[DLBrothers]

sub-zero stuff

Thank Tracy, I was particularly interested in that since i just recently aquired my dewar and have done a few blades.

Now did I read correctly - these folks say 0-1 will improve 400%+ with cryo?? I was operating under the assumption that cryo was only for SS and D2..... this is exciting!

 

[superdave]

Great thread Boss. I am still a newb so this is just one more learning tool for me to use when i start to think about what other types of steel to use in the future. Thanks guys for all the answers.

+1

 

[Doug Lester]

I really don't like this question. Too many variables, not to mention too many sacred cows to gore. You did ask perfect in relation to a given set of conditions but even then it's a bad question; still too subjective.

I wouldn't recommend any air quenching steel for forging at all or for stock removal unless you are willing to invest in the equipment needed to heat treat it or send it out. Nor would I recommend any hypereutectic steel over 84 points unless you have better temperature control than a gas forge will give you. Eutectic steel would be good for beginners as would some of the mildly hypereutectic or even hypoeutectic steels. If you want to do differential hardening then hypoeutectic steels are the way to go due to the formation of pre-eutectic ferrite. If you want to do stainless 440C and 154CM are tried and true. The new wonder steels are great if you always keep the tools on hand needed to sharpen them, if you don't they're a liability and more brittle in either case. That's as close as I'm getting to specific recommendations.

Doug

 

[J. Hoffman]

Some of them I had no business answering, so I left those to the pros.

First, let's keep emotions in check. I can't figure out why a steel discussion mushrooms into a name calling contest but we won't be having that here. The moderators will moderate.

(Note, I did NOT ask which is better: forging or stock removal. Let's save that for another day -- like never.)

=====================================================
Easy one first, What is your favorite steel and why? VG-10, scary sharp edges

If you wanted a knife that the most important feature was edge retention and everything else came a distant second, which steel would you use?

If you wanted a knife that was the most corrosion resistant, which steel would you use?Surgical Stainless (you know, the good stuff from China)

If you wanted to make a small axes, hatchet or rescue tool, which steel would you use?CPM REX 121

If you wanted the most shock resistant steel for a cutting edge, which steel would you use?

If you wanted the toughest steel for a folder, which steel would you use?
Would you use the same for a big fixed blade?
What about a typical hunter?

If you wanted the best all around "user" (think bushcraft) in a non-stainless steel, which would it be? What about stainless?

If you wanted the steel that polished up the best, which steel would you use?

What is the best steel to use for making a straight edge razor in carbon?
What is the best steel to use for making a straight edge razor in stainless?

If you were going to tell a beginning forging knife maker to use a steel, which steel would you recommend? 1084

If you were going to tell a beginning stock removal knife maker to use a steel, which steel would you recommend?1084

Which steels are best to learn making damascus?

Which is the best steel for a thin fillet knife? VG10

Which is the most economical carbon (forging) steel that makes a decent knife?1084

Which is the most economical stainless (stock removal) steel that makes a decent knife? 154CM

If you were going to make your own forging hammers, which steel is best for that?

Which carbon steels work best for the highest contrast in damascus?
How about stainless?

Which carbon steels work best for edge retention in damascus?
How about stainless, any different from above?

Which steel would you recommend for a Professional Chef for a kitchen knife? W2

Which steel would you recommend for your buddy to give to his wife as a kitchen knife? Surgical Stainless (you know, that good stuff made in China)

======================================================

Did I miss anything?

If can answer any or all of these, have at it. Keep in mind someone else may (will) have a different opinion. Don't take that personally. It's an opinion just like yours.

If you can post any charts or other references, please do so.

And BTW stock removal is way better than forging.......just sayin:nothing:

 

[Doug Lester]

Mooseyard, behave yourself!!:hammer:

Doug