Crazy wood prices?

[John Wilson]

It certainly causes me to have profound respect for full time makers. It is a giant milestone for a newer maker to get to the point where he's no longer dipping into the family bank account to keep making knives. It is quite something else to produce knives at a high quality, consistently, and at enough volume to actually earn a living. That is nothing short of a level of professionalism that we all should aspire to in any discipline we choose to follow.

 

[Robert66]

My only market for sticks and knives are mostly people I know or their friends , not sure if I wanna 'go public' so to speak.
My stick sales are almost exhausted I reckon, most I know have one or two, they are rustic sticks as you cane see, townies do not want them.

The knife world is relatively new to me and by o boy, am I enjoying it.

I have a brilliant neighbour with 3 school kids, their father does free graphic work for the school fund activities, I came up with the idea of collecting used horse shoes which I can get plenty of, the young lads help clean and spray them silver and sell to the parents, teachers and neighbours for a £1 each, we have amassed about £700 so far just on horse shoes, guess who bought all of the aerosol paint, must be mad. lol

I must keep busy/

 

[John Wilson]

Well, the fate of a knifemaker in the UK sounds a bit uncertain at the moment, at least from the outside. Is it all of the UK, or is primarily in London?

At any rate, what I discovered was that I was my own worst enemy. You don't have to actively sell hand made knives, you only have to let people know that you make them. The sales come to you, and I mean that. I don't know any knifemaker who has the least bit of trouble selling even the most crudely made knives. People very much seek out hand made items, because it's become a rare thing these days to own anything not bought at IKEA.

As to price, I was also my own worst enemy. I thought I had to put out museum quality knives to ask a fair price for them. It turns out I was suffering under the weight of my own fear and not from any real concern. Because once I got up the nerve to start raising prices, nobody ever said "No" in response. And so I kept raising them slowly and deliberately until I was no longer appealing to those looking for a deal. Shockingly, the entire world is not so frugal as I am. As prices increase you discover another tier of client exists.

Do not be afraid of making money for what you do. And to establish a starting point- I honestly believe that there is no hand made knife that should sell for less than $150. It is your unique handmade product that you are offering, not the raw materials with a bit of markup. You aren't Tesco.

 

[Robert66]

Well, the fate of a knifemaker in the UK sounds a bit uncertain at the moment, at least from the outside. Is it all of the UK, or is primarily in London?

At any rate, what I discovered was that I was my own worst enemy. You don't have to actively sell hand made knives, you only have to let people know that you make them. The sales come to you, and I mean that. I don't know any knifemaker who has the least bit of trouble selling even the most crudely made knives. People very much seek out hand made items, because it's become a rare thing these days to own anything not bought at IKEA.

As to price, I was also my own worst enemy. I thought I had to put out museum quality knives to ask a fair price for them. It turns out I was suffering under the weight of my own fear and not from any real concern. Because once I got up the nerve to start raising prices, nobody ever said "No" in response. And so I kept raising them slowly and deliberately until I was no longer appealing to those looking for a deal. Shockingly, the entire world is not so frugal as I am. As prices increase you discover another tier of client exists.

Do not be afraid of making money for what you do. And to establish a starting point- I honestly believe that there is no hand made knife that should sell for less than $150. It is your unique handmade product that you are offering, not the raw materials with a bit of markup. You aren't Tesco.

My son said exactly the same as yourself.

I look at the craftsmanship on here and now fully comprehend the high skill and hours involved, I then look at my own knives which fall below this and think they would not sell very well although I have sold some.

With Christmas on the horizon I know some would sell and I will hit the shooters at auction after we dine.
I have previously stated the host really prides themselves on collecting the CASH money, keeping it, writing out a cheque in their names so the charity believes they are personally donating, sad fools really but I do not give a flying frog as long as the benefit reaches its intended charity, in all fairness hosts do usually through a bit extra into the kitty.

I get tremendous personal satisfaction which is fine by me.

I am 75 now and my eyesight is not that good for close work.

I am due for a full government health check in September because of my age.

I do not shoot much as the rough terrain nakkuz me up, some shoots will transport me around.

 

[Chris Railey]

Do not be afraid of making money for what you do. And to establish a starting point- I honestly believe that there is no hand made knife that should sell for less than $150. It is your unique handmade product that you are offering, not the raw materials with a bit of markup. You aren't Tesco.

I needed to read that, thanks. Is it just me or did anyone else keep expecting to read "except for yours"

 

[opaul]

Well, the fate of a knifemaker in the UK sounds a bit uncertain at the moment, at least from the outside. Is it all of the UK, or is primarily in London?

At any rate, what I discovered was that I was my own worst enemy. You don't have to actively sell hand made knives, you only have to let people know that you make them. The sales come to you, and I mean that. I don't know any knifemaker who has the least bit of trouble selling even the most crudely made knives. People very much seek out hand made items, because it's become a rare thing these days to own anything not bought at IKEA.

As to price, I was also my own worst enemy. I thought I had to put out museum quality knives to ask a fair price for them. It turns out I was suffering under the weight of my own fear and not from any real concern. Because once I got up the nerve to start raising prices, nobody ever said "No" in response. And so I kept raising them slowly and deliberately until I was no longer appealing to those looking for a deal. Shockingly, the entire world is not so frugal as I am. As prices increase you discover another tier of client exists.

Do not be afraid of making money for what you do. And to establish a starting point- I honestly believe that there is no hand made knife that should sell for less than $150. It is your unique handmade product that you are offering, not the raw materials with a bit of markup. You aren't Tesco.

I agree with what you are saying John. I put a few knives on my page (when I first starting making knives) and got some interest and I didn't already have a price in mind. I settled on $65 in the beginning which even included the sheath. I gradually raised my prices (in increments) as my skill improved and haven't had any issues selling almost all of the knives I make.

I think some but not all people appreciate (and we've discussed this) what goes into making a knife. Most people don't seem to think about the consumables, equipment, the shop space etc. Maybe they look at it as a one off and can't see beyond that.

 

[John Wilson]

Maybe they look at it as a one off and can't see beyond that.

Oh, I think that probably is the key factor. Most makers I've spoken to have a similar story about becoming a slave to the waiting list early on. You have all these orders you took at a price that turned out to be too low, then find yourself working all hours of the day and night, doing the math in your head and realizing that you are working like a dog and actually losing money.

 

[Robert66]

Oh, I think that probably is the key factor. Most makers I've spoken to have a similar story about becoming a slave to the waiting list early on. You have all these orders you took at a price that turned out to be too low, then find yourself working all hours of the day and night, doing the math in your head and realizing that you are working like a dog and actually losing money.

 

[Robert66]

I dig that which you say.

I started off sharpening mostly household kitchen knives for neighbours, gratis, then anyone who asked, I did a few butchers shops who begrudged paying as they heard I was not charging neighbours, I still do some neighbours as good will and do not mind.

Next I bought knives very cheap from car boot sales and altered them to look like field knives, I enjoyed that.

Next I started making from scratch file knives, I built a forge, bought some equipment and off I went making knives which would not lastingly stay sharp.
I got to the stage of staying up late, working long hours producing stuff to more or less show off to my friends who sat in front of the TV all day, I am really wrapped up in it now I have learned from here, I have slowed down now and more intent on doing one properly as I can.

My Bowie is near completion, I have had issues through being without brazing equipment, I am gonna see about some brass tomorrow from a scrap yard.

I feel far less anxious now I have somewhere to turn to for advice.

I will try a Bowie without a finger guard.

I love this knife making.

I am improving

 

[Robert66]

Bad news about the scrap brass.

I went to see the scrap man early this morning which is his slack period, he brought out two steel pallets both half full with salvaged/used plumbers fittings which did not help me although I got 3 pieces I might use, he said to call next Friday to look for bar ends or flat plate.

I have badly scratched my finger guard, sod it

 

[Mark Knapp]

I am a knife maker and a materials supplier.
This has all been covered before. It seems a little hypocritical to me for a knife maker that sells his knives for premium prices to complain about a provider selling premium materials for premium prices.

The wood that you buy from a flooring supplier or a lumber hard is not the same wood you're getting from a conscientious handle material supplier, or it shouldn't be. From a good handle materials seller the wood will be select, crack free, highly figured and guaranteed. Not true with material bought by the board foot. It costs money to make run of the mill wood into select handle material, if you don't want to do that work yourself, you have to pay the guy to do it.

Handle supply people come and go, it's not easy to make money at it. Market forces take care of the guys that are just gauging. competition in this business does what it does in any business. We all have to keep our prices competitive to stay in business, if we don't we are soon out of business.

 

[scott.livesey]

I am a knife maker and a materials supplier.
The wood that you buy from a flooring supplier or a lumber hard is not the same wood you're getting from a conscientious handle material supplier, or it shouldn't be. From a good handle materials seller the wood will be select, crack free, highly figured and guaranteed. Not true with material bought by the board foot. It costs money to make run of the mill wood into select handle material, if you don't want to do that work yourself, you have to pay the guy to do it.

if someone wants to pay you $50 for 2 pieces of 3/8" x 2" x 6" wood, so be it. but defending your prices by saying you take run of the mill wood by the board foot and with skilled hands turn it into "select handle material". but in first sentence you say "The wood that you buy from a flooring supplier or a lumber hard is not the same wood you're getting from a conscientious handle material supplier"
come on, it is not magic to find nice wood in a lumber yard and get a set of scales from it. I do agree that some folks do not have the equipment or desire to do the work, but it is nothing more special than having the desire to do it.
how come no wood on your website?

 

[Robert66]

When learning knife making you will make mistakes, I know, lol, so getting materials cheap makes sense.
With any luck I have only one way to go, UP, lol

 

[Mark Knapp]

if someone wants to pay you $50 for 2 pieces of 3/8" x 2" x 6" wood, so be it. but defending your prices by saying you take run of the mill wood by the board foot and with skilled hands turn it into "select handle material". but in first sentence you say "The wood that you buy from a flooring supplier or a lumber hard is not the same wood you're getting from a conscientious handle material supplier"
come on, it is not magic to find nice wood in a lumber yard and get a set of scales from it. I do agree that some folks do not have the equipment or desire to do the work, but it is nothing more special than having the desire to do it.
how come no wood on your website?

What I do is select wood (or any material) from the mill, I bring it home and select from that board the best parts. For instance, a board of feather crotch walnut will not have all feather crotch in it. Customarily the figure will be a small persentage of the whole board. I map out the board to get the most yield of high figure from the board. The high figure may run diagonally through the board. After you get the good stuff from the board the rest may not have much value. It's very hard to sell straight grain wood. Now, you have to absorb the price of the whole board into the price of the blocks you did get.

To do handle materials in any quantity you need better stuff, a bigger band saw, a good one, a bigger shop, dust collection, if you have employees you got to pay them, you need insurance. It takes time to do everything it takes to make quality scales. Somebody has to pay for all those things, and still be competitive.

The reason I don't have any wood on my web site is because I live in Alaska, it costs me more to get wood up here, I can't cut wood up here and sell it at a competitive price down in the lower 48. I would be a fool to try and compete with handle dealers down there. I do provide lots of nice woods to my customers that come into my store.

I have paid 100.00 or more for nice handle pieces (wood) for my own knives at knife shows. If I see a nice piece of wood I either buy it or I walk away from it if I think I can do better elsewhere, but I don't complain about it.

It's fine if people want want to make knives with flooring lumber but thats not what handle material dealers are selling. We're selling highly figured curly and birdseye maple. You seldom see curly and birdseye at a flooring place and you seldom see handle dealers selling straight grain maple for $50.00 a set. We're mixing apples and oranges here.

 

[John Wilson]

it is not magic to find nice wood in a lumber yard and get a set of scales from it.

Scott, that’s a bit unfair. It’s not like anybody is getting a one foot board, drawing lines across it every two inches, and cutting it into 6 handles for $50 each. If they are then that is one heck of a nice board with all the figure miraculously running in the right direction.

The seller had to pay for the wood that ends up on the floor, too. If you buy a burl and get 30% yield you still had to pay for the other 70%.

 

[John Wilson]

I see Mark was posting while I was.

 

[scott.livesey]

Scott, that’s a bit unfair. It’s not like anybody is getting a one foot board, drawing lines across it every two inches, and cutting it into 6 handles for $50 each. If they are then that is one heck of a nice board with all the figure miraculously running in the right direction. The seller had to pay for the wood that ends up on the floor, too. If you buy a burl and get 30% yield you still had to pay for the other 70%.

I know and understand that. I make tables, benches, cutting boards and such. after wood is planed, i look for "special" spots that may make a nice handle. the spot is cut out to be used later, saving me $10 or $15. nothing ends up on floor except some sawdust. most of the trim and sawdust ends up in the smoker.

 

[J. Doyle]

What I do is select wood (or any material) from the mill, I bring it home and select from that board the best parts. For instance, a board of feather crotch walnut will not have all feather crotch in it. Customarily the figure will be a small persentage of the whole board. I map out the board to get the most yield of high figure from the board. The high figure may run diagonally through the board. After you get the good stuff from the board the rest may not have much value. It's very hard to sell straight grain wood. Now, you have to absorb the price of the whole board into the price of the blocks you did get.

To do handle materials in any quantity you need better stuff, a bigger band saw, a good one, a bigger shop, dust collection, if you have employees you got to pay them, you need insurance. It takes time to do everything it takes to make quality scales. Somebody has to pay for all those things, and still be competitive.

The reason I don't have any wood on my web site is because I live in Alaska, it costs me more to get wood up here, I can't cut wood up here and sell it at a competitive price down in the lower 48. I would be a fool to try and compete with handle dealers down there. I do provide lots of nice woods to my customers that come into my store.

I have paid 100.00 or more for nice handle pieces (wood) for my own knives at knife shows. If I see a nice piece of wood I either buy it or I walk away from it if I think I can do better elsewhere, but I don't complain about it.

It's fine if people want want to make knives with flooring lumber but thats not what handle material dealers are selling. We're selling highly figured curly and birdseye maple. You seldom see curly and birdseye at a flooring place and you seldom see handle dealers selling straight grain maple for $50.00 a set. We're mixing apples and oranges here.

If I could 'like' this post 50 times, I would.

Thank you Mark!

 

[J. Doyle]

I already touched on it in my post and Mark mentioned it again. But to put it more succinctly and clearly: there is nothing wrong with using flooring or typical lumber yard material (even stuff THEY might list as 'exotic') on a knife, as long as you and the buyer both like it.

But at a certain price point and quality point, hickory or cherry flooring, or barely curly maple or most other lumber yard 'exotic' specials aren't going to cut it as knife handles. And no lumber yard is selling that high quality stuff, let alone at screaming deals. If they are, you better buy all you can and don't tell anyone.

Also, as Mark mentioned, reputable dealers aren't selling lumber yard specials for $50+ for knife sized pieces. If they are, they're not reputable and shame on them and shame on anyone that pays that price.

Apples to oranges.

 

[Mark Knapp]

I know and understand that. I make tables, benches, cutting boards and such. after wood is planed, i look for "special" spots that may make a nice handle. the spot is cut out to be used later, saving me $10 or $15. nothing ends up on floor except some sawdust. most of the trim and sawdust ends up in the smoker.

If I made tables and cutting boards I too would have a use for all the "Run of the Mill" stuff. I'm not that fortunate, I make knives, and nobody will buy a knife from me with straight grain wood on it. There's got to be a lot going on in a little handle for it to be interesting enough for someone to want it.

If part of your business is making and selling handle material, you are soon over-run with all the cut-offs, the chaff so to speak. And since you cut the good part out of the middle, you can't even hardly give the rest away.