Crazy wood prices?

Cut synthetic floor tiles to shape and stick them together to obtain your thickness, or stick one piece on each wood scale, it looks good, I think I have posted one..
 
John Wilson said:
Well, the fate of a knifemaker in the UK sounds a bit uncertain at the moment, at least from the outside. Is it all of the UK, or is primarily in London?

At any rate, what I discovered was that I was my own worst enemy. You don't have to actively sell hand made knives, you only have to let people know that you make them. The sales come to you, and I mean that. I don't know any knifemaker who has the least bit of trouble selling even the most crudely made knives. People very much seek out hand made items, because it's become a rare thing these days to own anything not bought at IKEA.

As to price, I was also my own worst enemy. I thought I had to put out museum quality knives to ask a fair price for them. It turns out I was suffering under the weight of my own fear and not from any real concern. Because once I got up the nerve to start raising prices, nobody ever said "No" in response. And so I kept raising them slowly and deliberately until I was no longer appealing to those looking for a deal. Shockingly, the entire world is not so frugal as I am. As prices increase you discover another tier of client exists.

Do not be afraid of making money for what you do. And to establish a starting point- I honestly believe that there is no hand made knife that should sell for less than $150. It is your unique handmade product that you are offering, not the raw materials with a bit of markup. You aren't Tesco.
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MY GOD THIS IS ME!! I'm my own worst enemy and I'm afraid to ask what I think I should for a quality knife that I've made!!
 
I do want to say I am relatively new to all this knife making stuff . I posted a pic of a Hunter I built with decently figured Maple scales, not extremely figured but decent. I asked what I might be able to sell it for and was told $150.00 and then was told if that had I used nicer wood it could have been a $300 knife! The Maple I used was Free but had I spent $50 for a nicer set of scales I could have made $100 more. This has stuck in my head! It takes me just as much work to do the lesser set of scales as the higher quality scales so why not use the better material and put more money in my pocket? Another thing I've learned is you don't have to be the cheapest in town! I don't want that cleientel anyway!!
 
Gliden07 said:
I do want to say I am relatively new to all this knife making stuff . I posted a pic of a Hunter I built with decently figured Maple scales, not extremely figured but decent. I asked what I might be able to sell it for and was told $150.00 and then was told if that had I used nicer wood it could have been a $300 knife! The Maple I used was Free but had I spent $50 for a nicer set of scales I could have made $100 more. This has stuck in my head! It takes me just as much work to do the lesser set of scales as the higher quality scales so why not use the better material and put more money in my pocket? Another thing I've learned is you don't have to be the cheapest in town! I don't want that cleientel anyway!!
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did the knife sell for $150? as with any collectible/hand made item, you can say $150 all day, but what did it sell for or it still advertised for $150? a serious knife user is not going to pay double the price just because of handle material. for a daily user kitchen knife, handle material is of interest only in how it effects balance and total weight. there seems to be two classes of knives, ones made to used daily and ones that look nice on display.
 
scott.livesey said:
did the knife sell for $150? as with any collectible/hand made item, you can say $150 all day, but what did it sell for or it still advertised for $150? a serious knife user is not going to pay double the price just because of handle material. for a daily user kitchen knife, handle material is of interest only in how it effects balance and total weight. there seems to be two classes of knives, ones made to used daily and ones that look nice on display.
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It sold! Guess I'll never know if it would have sold at $300??
 
scott.livesey said:
... a serious knife user is not going to pay double the price just because of handle material. ...
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Maybe not all the way up the chain. But on lower end knives, its not at all unreasonable to think that a collector OR daily knife user would pay $150 more for nicer material. If you put a $90 piece of koa on it instead of a $15 piece of curly maple, it could easily be feasible.

And when you have to replace that $90 piece of koa, will it still be $90? Premium materials aren't getting more common or cheaper.
 
I can only speak for myself, but for me it has absolutely been true: the handle is what sells the knife 90% of the time. We makers obsess over the blade and the steel and the grind. Guess what? The casual knife user doesn’t. They buy knives and cars and shoes and guns and clothes because of HOW IT LOOKS. The person buying their first handmade knives want something unique that doesn’t look like what everyone else gets at the store. What do you think sets a handmade knife apart from the hunting knife at the store? The handle.

Once you start talking about collectors then that’s an entirely different discussion. We are talking new makers here selling primarily to new customers.

Handles sell knives, and value is a perception. A knife with a handle made from a 2x4 looks amateur hour. The very same knife with a Redwood Burl handle is perceived as an heirloom and people line up to pay for heirlooms.
 
Gliden07 said:
It sold! Guess I'll never know if it would have sold at $300??
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You’ll never know what your price should be until you start hearing “no” once in a while. If you don’t get a little lump in your throat when you quote the price then your price is too low. The hardest thing to fight is the urge to give everyone a deal before they even have a chance to say no to the asking price.
 
I don’t begrudge anyone asking whatever price they want to ask for a block of wood. If it’s not worth it to me then I don’t buy it.

I think it was earlier in this very thread where I said it but exotic wood is a profitable upsell. That doesn’t help you if you make inventory and then go try to sell it. But if you are making to order nothing is at risk. You don’t use the material unless you know it’s baked into the price.
 
scott.livesey said:
did the knife sell for $150? as with any collectible/hand made item, you can say $150 all day, but what did it sell for or it still advertised for $150? a serious knife user is not going to pay double the price just because of handle material. for a daily user kitchen knife, handle material is of interest only in how it effects balance and total weight. there seems to be two classes of knives, ones made to used daily and ones that look nice on display.
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This is not true at all. I have seen chef knives that sold for over a thousand (Bill Burkes for instance) used in the kitchen every day. My knives that often sell for over a thousand are often used. People like to use pretty things. Pride of ownership is a big deal. Why do you think so many people line up at the Apple store every time a new phone comes out when the one they bought six months ago works perfectly fine. (Not me, I have an old Samsung.)

I have a sharpening shop, we sharpen thousands of knives a year and there isn't a week goes buy we don't sharpen well used knives that cost over $500.00 new.

All that having been said, I don't think that it makes any difference if it's a user or a collectable (I make both, but I make both with real quality materials) the nicer it looks, the more I can sell it for.

PS, My average knife sells for around $2,400.00 now and I have a 5 year back log on orders. I've been making knives for 18 years and been full time for half of that. I'm not boasting, just saying, make the best knife you can with the best materials you can get. Nobody needs to buy a hand made knife, make a knife that people will want to buy. Works for me.
 
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John Wilson said:
Handles sell knives, and value is a perception. A knife with a handle made from a 2x4 looks amateur hour. The very same knife with a Redwood Burl handle is perceived as an heirloom and people line up to pay for heirlooms.
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i am not saying 2x4. i am talking bookmatched spalted or ambrosia maple, oak burl, dogwood root, honey locust, black walnut, 100 year old oak. this wood is all grown within 75 miles of my shop. the cost for these, just the time to cut out the handle from the table top.
again, if a maker wants to spend $50+ on a set of scales, go for it. but for a beginner or a maker who also works with wood, inexpensive, beautiful scales are there to be found.
if looks is all that matters, we should just make blades from 8670(you even fib just a touch and say it was from a sawblade) or AEB-L(these are some of the least expensive blade steels out there and have very simple HT), put a mirror finish on the blade, and handle of ironwood burl and laugh all the way to the bank
 
To me the distinction between a "User" and a Collector knife is not necessarily in what is costs. It's more about the materials used and the style of the knife. Both users and collectors can (should) beautiful. Pretty knives sell better.

When I am making a user knife I choose materials that are more durable. Things like stabilized wood and fossil walrus ivory which is very stable and durable, (can it get wet? ask the walrus). I stay away from things like mammoth tooth and blue amber. For steel I would use stainless damascus or a less fancy carbon damascus like a random pattern over a mosaic. Random patterns can still look nice with a little use, not so with a fancier mosaics.

User knives are generally chef knives, hunters and skinners with a few EDC's. Professional chefs commonly use expensive knives in the kitchen every day. Seldom are Bowies, fighting knives and daggers users.
 
Another consideration that often goes unnoticed in the "how much quality materials add to the price" is the presupposition that we are all equal craftsman. Mark Knapp is not getting $2400 for a knife solely because he went to nicer/more expensive materials....It's because he is an absolute master craftsman. Obviously he could not command the prices he gets using cheap materials...so materials DO matter....but this is no even playing field we are discussing.

High grade materials with poor implementation do not add to the value of the knife...in fact...I believe they work against you. It's like a megaphone shouting to the world..."He wasn't ready to step up yet!!". Yet at some point you have to play with nicer materials to be able to use nicer materials.

The high grade materials showcase a master craftsman's abilities in a very obvious fashion....while showcasing a beginner's ability just as obviously.

At some point the beginner, when satisfied with their level of craftsmanship, has to buy into higher grade materials to become proficient....call it tuition. And some of those knives may need to hide in a drawer for eternity...depending upon how you are "wired"...lol.

It takes decent intuition to know when it's time to pay tuition.....
 
It is only now I realise how serious you upper echelon of knifesmiths take your trade/hobby, I also believe the more you improve the seriousness grows on you, I can even feel it since I have learned a bit more over these last few weeks, I am now trying to make a better knife each time.

I admire the workmanship you achieve, the strange thing is that my mates admire my work as they do not see yours.
 
Even in a more level playing field, materials matter and command AT LEAST their own value in increased price, if not a little more for the 'exclusive' or 'cool' factor.....as well as the future replacement factor, which SHOULD include anticipated inflation.

Another distinction that needs to be made is what is the end game in making a particular knife? If you are making a knife with salvaged and scrounged material, and locally sourced (maybe read inexpensive?) handle material with the goal of repurposing, or making a knife in the most economical way possible to satisfy your or your buyers desires, that is totally fine. Read no further.

IF YOU PLAN/WOULD LIKE TO SELL KNIVES FOR A PARTIAL BUSINESS OR PROFIT.......read on.

I see newer makers all the time say "I'm only selling $150 knives....I can't justify a $60 plus piece of handle material." The real truth is, if you want to sell knives and outsell the competition, you can't afford NOT to use high quality handle material. If you have to raise your price to account for AT LEAST the increased cost of the material.....so be it.

I can't be the only one that has noticed the HUGE influx of new makers into our field in the last year or two due to shows like Forged In Fire and the booming interest in handmade/handcrafted stuff and the entrepreneur spirit that is surging in this country right now. And 90% or more of those guys are making simple basic three piece knives (full tang, two scales). I see guys ALL THE TIME on Instagram putting $90 pieces of koa on knives that barely crack the $300 mark.....and they can't keep up with sales.

If you're a newer maker making three piece knives and wanting to sell them, what are you going to do to differentiate yourself from the vast sea of new makers doing the exact same thing as you? The answer?....... High quality handle material, well finished. As my good buddy @John Wilson says, "Handles sell knives" He couldn't be more right. Clean, well finished blades with nice grinds and a nice high quality wood handle will outsell just about anything else, all day long.

There are undoubtably folks that will appreciate a well crafted handmade knife with plain, locally sourced, inexpensive handle material. But show them a premium wood handle upgrade and their jaw will drop. If you asked 100 people if they wanted to save $50 or $60 on a custom knife by going to a plainer handle, only 2 or 3 will go for it....if that.

It doesn't take any more effort or time or skill to finish a piece of koa or amboyna burl as it does a piece of pine or hickory. So put the absolute nicest piece of handle material that you can afford on it, finish it well and charge accordingly.
 
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so spalted or ambrosia maple is plain? what makes koa, a very nice straight grained medium brown wood, so special except that it comes from Hawaii? commercial harvesting is prohibited and only trees that have been storm damaged or are in the way of a new house or road are harvested. if one shops, a book matched set of basic koa scales can be found for 5 bucks or so + shipping.
locally sourced is a selling point, especially in a state where Made in NC or Grown in NC is a part of most local advertising.
so for new makers: use certified steel from a known source. heat treat yourself for best hardness/toughness or send to a certified industrial heat treat facility. SHOP for best buys on materials.
 
Scott, have you ever seen the koa that knifemakers typically use? I'm talking about premium 5a curly koa.

And yes, I and most of my collectors/customers think ambrosia and spalted maple are pretty plain. I can't sell them on a $1000+ knife.

Actually spalted stuff, even stabilized, I wouldn't touch for scales, but that's a topic for another time.
 
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