Crazy wood prices?

Another thing that comes to mind on this thread is....When should you actually begin selling knives?

My son just made a sheath for a friend of ours that bought a knife from his friend that has recently begun making knives. He paid $250 (or was gifted and told that woulda been the price) And it was crude beyond crude....But had his custom stamp...was decently sharp. had a very nice set of dyed purple burl handles...finished horribly. The balance was poor,very heavy...I guarantee no lightening holes under the scales... the bevel had more faces than Jim Carrey....and on it goes...Oh...and it came with no sheath, obviously.

His design was good....I can see in the work that he will be a good maker some day...but selling now? I wouldn't sell that if I had made it....(I get embarrassed by my mistakes....)

But someone will buy them....the term "handmade" seems to allow for all kinds of cobby looking knifes. Knifes that may be good steel and heat treat, cut well but are very rough looking.

I personally do not feel "rough looking" is a style...It is merely evidence of where a person's knifemaking skills are at. Like the knife described above there is the glimmer of real talent and in 3 years his knives will be unrecognizable compared to what he is making today. (or let's ask this...how many of you wish you could retract some of your early sales? Lol)

Am I wrong in thinking that when people(that don't have the same last name as you) start asking you to build them a knife...THAT is the time to do so? (not when your materials are running low and cash is tight...Lol?)

Just some subjective ponderings....(sorry if I am running too far afield here...I would like to know when any of you made the jump from "give-aways" to selling...and your thoughts at that time)
 
I can only speak for myself, but for me it has absolutely been true: the handle is what sells the knife 90% of the time. We makers obsess over the blade and the steel and the grind. Guess what? The casual knife user doesn’t. They buy knives and cars and shoes and guns and clothes because of HOW IT LOOKS. The person buying their first handmade knives want something unique that doesn’t look like what everyone else gets at the store. What do you think sets a handmade knife apart from the hunting knife at the store? The handle.

Once you start talking about collectors then that’s an entirely different discussion. We are talking new makers here selling primarily to new customers.

Handles sell knives, and value is a perception. A knife with a handle made from a 2x4 looks amateur hour. The very same knife with a Redwood Burl handle is perceived as an heirloom and people line up to pay for heirlooms.


Slightly off topic.

We in theUK have our very own John Wilson, a top accomplished angler, have a look on Google.

Keep writing John, I love it.
 
To expound a bit on my last post, when I'm advocating using premium exotic materials, I mean premium........the best of the best. Koa isn't better JUST because its koa. Its premium when its ripped with bold curly figure. Any species of wood can be premium if it has unique colors or figure or grain that isn't the norm for that species.

These premium woods are where the high costs come in....for the seller of the woods and the knifemaker both. These rare specimens are the stuff in demand and the ones that cost the big bucks.

I've not seen anyone selling flooring scraps or lumber yard 'exotics' for anywhere close to $50. But good burl of any type or curly/fiddleback and other in demand luxury exotics.......sure.
 
It doesn't take any more effort or time or skill to finish a piece of koa or amboyna burl as it does a piece of pine or hickory. So put the absolute nicest piece of handle material that you can afford on it, finish it well and charge accordingly

This is what has stuck in my head. Ever since that day I look at my builds a little differant.
 
would like to know when any of you made the jump from "give-aways" to selling...and your thoughts at that time)

Once I could make a decent knife friends and co-workers began to ask me to make knives for them. I would agree and let them pay for the materials I used but I never charged for the labor because the way I looked at it was "I am using their money to learn". One person, who had previously been the receipient of a "pay for materials only knife" recently asked me to make a specific knife for him but I think he was surprised when I gave him the price. I told him now that I almost understand how to make a knife the days of the $50 knife are over. Seriously though, I upped my prices when I got my process down enough that my knives consistently test beyond my expectations.
 
Once I could make a decent knife friends and co-workers began to ask me to make knives for them. I would agree and let them pay for the materials I used but I never charged for the labor because the way I looked at it was "I am using their money to learn". One person, who had previously been the receipient of a "pay for materials only knife" recently asked me to make a specific knife for him but I think he was surprised when I gave him the price. I told him now that I almost understand how to make a knife the days of the $50 knife are over. Seriously though, I upped my prices when I got my process down enough that my knives consistently test beyond my expectations.

I still have a long way to go but, some of the JUNK I see people selling just kills me! I cant believe they get anything for some of the garbage out there. This has gotten a little off topic but I wish I had the audacity to charge what some do!!
 
I've been watching this thread from the start and have avoided posting because I know this is a touchy subject. I don't make very many knives, but if I really wanted to I could easily build a 5 year back log for orders. All the knives that come out of the shop are user knives, hunters and everyday users. It's not because I'm a well know maker or that everything that comes out of the shop holds an edge for 5 years without sharpening. It's the 30+ hours spent working on stupid little details that can drive you nuts, and....... crazy beautiful wood that cost more than a prime rib dinner. Sexy sells! If you want to make 50 or 60 knives a year as a hobbyist and break even use cheap material and sell cheap that's you're choice. Do what makes you happy. But don't bash the guy selling high quality materials for people that want the best. I'd rather make 6 or 7 knives and sell them for $400+.
Sorry for the rant I can't wait to start making metal, and wood dust again.
20180104_194824-2306x688.jpgG10Koa-517x291.jpg
 
I've been watching this thread from the start and have avoided posting because I know this is a touchy subject. I don't make very many knives, but if I really wanted to I could easily build a 5 year back log for orders. All the knives that come out of the shop are user knives, hunters and everyday users. It's not because I'm a well know maker or that everything that comes out of the shop holds an edge for 5 years without sharpening. It's the 30+ hours spent working on stupid little details that can drive you nuts, and....... crazy beautiful wood that cost more than a prime rib dinner. Sexy sells! If you want to make 50 or 60 knives a year as a hobbyist and break even use cheap material and sell cheap that's you're choice. Do what makes you happy. But don't bash the guy selling high quality materials for people that want the best. I'd rather make 6 or 7 knives and sell them for $400+.
Sorry for the rant I can't wait to start making metal, and wood dust again.
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I concur.
 
this thread seems to repeat itself each year about a month after Blade, i made similar comments last year and the year before. crazy beautiful wood grows in my backyard and has names you can pronounce like oak and maple. it seems 'more sexy' means buying blanks made from overseas wood, doesn't really compute.
 
I've been watching this thread from the start and have avoided posting because I know this is a touchy subject. I don't make very many knives, but if I really wanted to I could easily build a 5 year back log for orders. All the knives that come out of the shop are user knives, hunters and everyday users. It's not because I'm a well know maker or that everything that comes out of the shop holds an edge for 5 years without sharpening. It's the 30+ hours spent working on stupid little details that can drive you nuts, and....... crazy beautiful wood that cost more than a prime rib dinner. Sexy sells! If you want to make 50 or 60 knives a year as a hobbyist and break even use cheap material and sell cheap that's you're choice. Do what makes you happy. But don't bash the guy selling high quality materials for people that want the best. I'd rather make 6 or 7 knives and sell them for $400+.
Sorry for the rant I can't wait to start making metal, and wood dust again.
View attachment 64737View attachment 64738


I did not mean it to come out as me bashing the guys selling.

Posted a thread in the heat of the moment I shouldn't have. I apologize to anyone it offended. I will close the thread as soon as I can figure out how

Beautiful knives BTW! Love those hamons!
 
I did not mean it to come out as me bashing the guys selling.

Posted a thread in the heat of the moment I shouldn't have. I apologize to anyone it offended. I will close the thread as soon as I can figure out how

Beautiful knives BTW! Love those hamons!
The last time this topic came up I wanted it closed just like you. Don't do it! If we talk about what makes custom knives desirable to buyers everyone benefits. We don't have to agree on everything. But maybe after time we can all benefit from others have learned the hard way.
Thank you for the compliment on my knives.
 
The last time this topic came up I wanted it closed just like you. Don't do it! If we talk about what makes custom knives desirable to buyers everyone benefits. We don't have to agree on everything. But maybe after time we can all benefit from others have learned the hard way.
Thank you for the compliment on my knives.


I completely agree! Just don't want it getting out of control. Some great points of view so far!
 
this thread seems to repeat itself each year about a month after Blade, i made similar comments last year and the year before. crazy beautiful wood grows in my backyard and has names you can pronounce like oak and maple. it seems 'more sexy' means buying blanks made from overseas wood, doesn't really compute.
Koa, Mango, redwood burl, crazy curly maple(a personal favorite), buckeye burl, dessert ironwood, highly figured walnut.... ALL grow in the United States and are not cheap.
 
Going back to that, A guy I know got into forging and wanted to make me a knife, I had a 2" Ball Bearing that I had found in Iraq in 2008, I gave him that to make a knife out of for me, told him I wanted a basic knife. 8 months later he tells me he had my knife for me but $150 to get it back. Not wanting to lose my steel or be a jerk I gave him the money and took the knife home. Bummed. I brought that knife to Bruce Bump, we did some testing on it and it was immediately apparent that the knife was crooked, bevels were very uneven and the heat treat was a failure, also there were large gaps in the scales. I peeled the scales off with a chisel and cut the pins off and drove them out, Bruce Acid etched the blade and showed me how bad the heat treat was. We then forge annealed it, I cut some excess off then I forged it into a whole knew knife and Bruce helped me heat treat it. That was my first knife build.
 
Going back to that, A guy I know got into forging and wanted to make me a knife, I had a 2" Ball Bearing that I had found in Iraq in 2008, I gave him that to make a knife out of for me, told him I wanted a basic knife. 8 months later he tells me he had my knife for me but $150 to get it back. Not wanting to lose my steel or be a jerk I gave him the money and took the knife home. Bummed. I brought that knife to Bruce Bump, we did some testing on it and it was immediately apparent that the knife was crooked, bevels were very uneven and the heat treat was a failure, also there were large gaps in the scales. I peeled the scales off with a chisel and cut the pins off and drove them out, Bruce Acid etched the blade and showed me how bad the heat treat was. We then forge annealed it, I cut some excess off then I forged it into a whole knew knife and Bruce helped me heat treat it. That was my first knife build.
also, That is my motivation to keep building and be better, I see guys at work buying his stuff, I want to give someone who bought one of his products one of my knives and let them compare.....someday
 
this thread seems to repeat itself each year about a month after Blade, i made similar comments last year and the year before. crazy beautiful wood grows in my backyard and has names you can pronounce like oak and maple. it seems 'more sexy' means buying blanks made from overseas wood, doesn't really compute.

Scott, maybe I'm wrong, but from your posts it seems like you're not understanding or seeing any difference in premium figure vs. plain, ordinary figure.

Where the tree grows, or even tree species really, has nothing to do with it. Like I said before, its about rare or unique figure AND colors in whatever species it is one is referring to.

Regardless of species, we need to distinguish premium/5A/exhibition/presentation grades from nice/pretty/figured grades.

You can think oak, hickory, ambrosia maple, cherry, pear, mahogany etc, etc.........are pretty all you want (and maybe they are) and cool because they grow in your yard, but in almost all cases, they'll never be premium because they're pretty plain.

The woods Ty mentioned are examples high on the list that produce premium sought after colors and figures and are found in the U.S., as he mentioned.

If you think those typically plainer woods are just as good as anything else, you would be in a very small minority. While maybe beautiful on their own right, 90% (probably more?) Of knife collectors would think they're average at best.

You could verify what I'm saying easy enough. Make 6 identical knives. Handle 3 with oak, ambrosia maple, hickory or whatever other pretty wood grows in your yard. Handle the other 3 with premium koa, ironwood, redwood or buckeye burl and see which ones sell first and/or are most popular.
 
I completely agree! Just don't want it getting out of control. Some great points of view so far!

Daniel, anyone can look and see there was no ill intent in your original post on this topic, you are not in control of where it goes from there. That being said I am grateful for the info which has come from this discussion because it has prompted me to expand my thoughts on handle materials. I have recently finished a couple of knives with perfect hamons, etched beautifully and perfectly coated with Gun Kote. Some of the finest blades I have made to date. I do not have to tell you guys how much time I have in the steel on these knives. I put a nicely finished mahogony handle on it and the only compliments I have received from the 20 or so people I have shown it to have been on the nice wooden handle. There is something to the phrase “handles sell knives” you can believe that.
 
i understand the differences. don't understand why buyers would pay double for a fancy handle, but that is what has happened to the market.
For makers, you have two choices buy ready made scales from a scales maker or make your own. either way, you will pay for the time and labor involved. i am retired and can spend the time looking for good wood and have the tools to cut the scales. if you don't have the time or equipment, either make the best blade with a plain handle like a lot of Japanese makers or pay the scale seller and not complain.
Before paying big bucks on handle material, try different finishes and find a finish that does not cover up all the fancy figure and color. i have made wood items with lots of color only to find the finish darkened the wood and all the subtle colors were lost. about the only finish I have found that does not darken the wood is water based polyurethane for floors.
by premium/5A/exhibition/presentation grades i guess you are referring to gunstock grading.
 
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