Guard making question...

[McClellan Made Blades]

Hey Dawgs and HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!
I'm working on what will be my first knife with my own made guard, I left plenty of room on the sides to shape it, but as I'm working it down, I realized I wasn't sure how wide it should be. It's a smallish bowie looking blade, not as long as a Bowie, about 5 1/2" blade, with a fairly long clip, I made the guard out of Nickel Silver, with 2 black and 1 rust colored spacers sandwiched between the top and a lower piece of Nickel Silver for the bottom of the guard.So far it is looking pretty good, it's still a bit chunky looking so I'm sure I will need to take it down a pretty good bit more, but would like to hear from those that know for sure about how wide the finished guard should be, Thanks Guys (and just in case) Girls, Rex

 

[Sean Cochran]

YOu got a pic so we can get an idea what you are working with?

 

[Ernie Swanson]

 

[McClellan Made Blades]

YOu got a pic so we can get an idea what you are working with?

Thanks for the help, I really didn't think pics would be necessary, I figured there was some sort of set ratio between the guard and the blade...maybe(?). Anyway, I went ahead and added some pics, please don't judge me too harshly on the pic quality, I took these very quickly, so I could get back to the shop for a little while longer, I've been waiting on replies before I went back work on it. The basic idea I'm trying to pull off here is a guard that has the sides arced or curved, I've seen it on many knives and love the look, this being my first guard I've made it looks pretty good, my drawing ability is way better than my knife making ability, I may have designed myself into another knife that is harder to make than it is to draw! I've done that several times, Thanks for the help, Rex

 

[Sean Cochran]

Rex
If those sharpie marks are where you are planning to go I think you will be fine. By the time you round the back and blend it all in it should look good.
BTW I like your choice of materials.

Sean

 

[murphda2]

Lookin good Rex.

 

[James Terrio]

I would wait until the handle is nearly done being shaped so it's a comfortable thickness, then match the width of the guard to that. You're definitely on the right track, and I like the "stacked" look of the guard very much. The blade's cool too!:thumbup:

 

[Cliff Fendley]

I would glue the handle on at that point and finish it out. Looks pretty close just some rounding and smoothing up but I like to blend with the handle when I'm doing that.

 

[McClellan Made Blades]

Wow! Thanks Guys, I wasn't expecting any compliments, and I hate to show a knife before it's time, as I've had several that got close to being finished and just didn't make the cut! You all know what I mean! I'll go ahead and get to work on the handle tonight, and shape them together, Thanks, Rex

 

[VaughnT]

Very nice work. I'm working on a similar style guard that I don't know will ever get finished, and the dimensions have really been kicking my butt. It's easy to say "this should be right" but you won't know until you get it all said and done nearly.

My idea is to keep the guard as small as possible on a small blade. 5" or so might seem big to some, but it's really just a large-ish camping knife - not a "fighter". At least, that's my opinion. I don't like the look of a long protrusion below the level of the blade and find that it can actually hinder how I use the knife. Not the same for all folks, but that's my experience and I try not to use any working knife that has a guard longer than my finger actually needs to not progress forward.

Overall, you're work is looking great. I love the blade shape. The stacked guard is very nice and something I might have to try down the road when I get better.

 

[McClellan Made Blades]

I would glue the handle on at that point and finish it out. Looks pretty close just some rounding and smoothing up but I like to blend with the handle when I'm doing that.

Cliff,
It's so funny you say that, it was a couple of weeks ago I was at Charlie Edmondson's shop watching him work his power hammer, we were talking about finishing out guards and handles, he mentioned that "a lot of the big time knife makers put the guard and handles on the blade then finish it out." I was sitting there thinking to myself,"what happens when they have screw up?" That's when he said, "They don't make very many mistakes!" I said, "They must not, but I think I'll stick to getting mine right before I stick on there", fast forward about 3 weeks and here I will be finishing the guard and the handle at the same time, by tomorrow night! The difference is very simple, I understand now, before I didn't, as I hadn't shaped my own guard before, for that matter I haven't made very many hidden tangs. I knew I was making full tangs fairly well, and I also knew that I wasn't very good at making guards, so to challenge myself and to improve my skill, I decided that all I was going to make, for the next several knives, would be hidden tangs. So I started drawing, while my designs aren't actually original, they are originally mine, as I don't copy anyone. While, I may borrow parts of a good idea I then add some of my own touches or ideas, to the design, I usually start a drawing by drawing a blade, with handle and guard. Then I try to come up with a purpose for the blade,(ie, chopper, skinner, hunter, etc.) I'm really into choppers right now, I'm a "big knife" kind of guy. I love a well balanced big knife that feels like an extension of your arm, there is something about that feeling, that feels so good! Y'all know what I'm talking about! Thanks for the help, I'm going to go freeze my butt off, and get some work done! I'll be back in a few hours, Rex

 

[Cliff Fendley]

On stainless guards that need a lot removed I will grind or mill away the bulk of it before gluing it up so I don't build up heat on the handle material trying to grind it all away. If it's a brass guard I'll just glue up the whole mess and grind away everything that doesn't look like a knife.

 

[McClellan Made Blades]

OK Dawgs,
Everything went pretty well last night until I got to the part where you start checking the fit where the guard meets the handle material, for some reason it wasn't working very well. Let me see if I explain this without sounding like an idiot! I assumed the Nickel Silver bar stock I had was flat, I didn't check and that one is my fault, my plan was to cut a slight angle in the top of the wood (handle) so I could set the blade at a slight angle, I did this, checked it and it looked perfect from there, so I started to work on the handle. Do keep in mind that the "Pup" was in the shop with me last night, of all things he could have been doing, he wanted to forge! And when the Pup what's to forge, I'm going to do all I can to make sure he has fun! Nothing in the world beats spending time in the shop making knives, except being in the shop making knives with my son! Anyway, I took all of my measurements, found the center of the block of wood I'm using, the drilled it out, after drilling I went to my bench and started cleaning it up the hollowed handle with my broach, I'm so glad I bought that item, it's difficult enough getting the tang in there the way I want it, but having to remove wood without a broach isn't easy or fun! It cost a pretty good bit and I did struggle with the purchase, but once I used it the first time I knew it was worth the money! So the handle is hollowed out now, and I set the blade with guard attached on top of it and it doesn't "sit" right on the top, first I though I had was that the NS was uneven, and it was by .002, the gap I had was more like a 1/16", so I checked the block, after trimming the angle in I put on my disc sander and smoothed it out, this is a really pretty piece of dyed/stabilized Zebra wood, after foolong around with it I then decided to take the angle out and just mount it straight, after a couple of gentle passes on my belt grinder I checked it and it looked good from one side and closer on the front, at this point I felt myself getting frustrated and decided to call it a night, at 1A.M.!

So does anyone have any idea what I did wrong? Should I just put the tang in straight? Or do you think the guard is too out of square? At this point the guard looks fairly close, not quite perfect, but very close, still seems to be a tiny gap, at first I was thinking that I hadn't drilled it deep enough, checked my measurments and sure enough I was actually deeper than I intended, so that wasn't the problem, I had a little bit of epoxy left on the tang and the back of the guard so I took that off, still looked really close but like it was hoovering over the guard like it wasn't hollowed out deep enough. If anyone has any ideas on how to fix this and more importantly how to avoid this, PLEASE share! Thanks for all the help you guys have given me. You guys are the BEST! Thank You so much, Rex

 

[McClellan Made Blades]

VaughnT;138217]Very nice work. I'm working on a similar style guard that I don't know will ever get finished, and the dimensions have really been kicking my butt. It's easy to say "this should be right" but you won't know until you get it all said and done nearly.

My idea is to keep the guard as small as possible on a small blade. 5" or so might seem big to some, but it's really just a large-ish camping knife - not a "fighter". At least, that's my opinion. I don't like the look of a long protrusion below the level of the blade and find that it can actually hinder how I use the knife. Not the same for all folks, but that's my experience and I try not to use any working knife that has a guard longer than my finger actually needs to not progress forward.

Overall, you're work is looking great. I love the blade shape. The stacked guard is very nice and something I might have to try down the road when I get better.

Thanks VaughnT,
A buddy at work is always telling me there are too many knife companies and now that he has discovered that there are a lot of knife makers, he is constantly saying that there are too many of them too, the last time he brought it up I asked him if there were too many car manufacturers? He said, I don't think so, maybe about right, I said, well how many do we need to build a car, and he said really just 1. I then said but what if that company had 3 or 4 designs of cars, do you think they would have something that everyone liked? He said, No way! I said exactley, there are more opinions about what people like and don't like, if it's not for you, that's fine, if it's not for anyone, that's a problem! Everyone likes something different from everyone else, it's that type of diversity that allows us knifemakers to make the next better "mouse trap", it allows us to be creative, and use that creativity to express the ideas and art we have inside of us, I'll probably never make a knife EVRYONE will love, I would be content to make one that a lot of people like, the rest I'll get to on the next one! The great thing about knives is that if we don't like the one we're looking at, we can turn the page and find another one that might be more to our liking. To me though your opinion matters, if it is a design flaw, or a functional problem you see with my design or the intended use of the blade, please share it with me, I don't ever think of everything I should take into consideration when I'm designing a knife, I do my best to get a funtion of the knife's intended use. But, I also want it to be beautiful, I accomplish that with my craftmanship and the materials I choose. All of you guys rememeber, it is our job to criticize ourselves. For us to get better at what we do, it's the constructive criticism that will help each other the most, we all have the choice to listen and then do something with the next one, or listen and not change a thing! We are all individuals, we all have ideas, creativity can't be stiffled because a select few people don't care for a particular design, that being said the real test comes when it gets put up for sale. The most incredible compliment I can get is when someone puts their hard earned money down for my work, that is breathtaking to me. The ultimate compliment! So please, if any of you dawgs see any of my work on here and see something that I may have overlooked, or some design flaw that could make the tool not work as well as it could if it was a little different here or there, please share with me, I won't cry......much!

But seriously, THANK YOU ALL! If it weren't for you guys, myself and a couple thousand other guys out there trying to follow a dream would be lost! For all of you that have helped me, do know I re-pay you all, by helping anyone that I can, that wants help. Both here and at home. I have an open shop policy, anyone and everyone is welcome to come to my shop, I'll show anybody everything I can. I feel like it would be an insult to all of you guys that have helped me so much if I didn't do that, AND it makes me feel good!!!! Everyone that comes to my shop leaves with something that hopefully will help them with their knife making endeavors, and might even learn a little something. I usually do learn something when I'm teaching someone else, that is one of the great things about teaching. Even though I'm not qualified to teach, I make sure thy know that, what I do know, I feel pretty comfortable sharing, if I don't know I feel even more comfortable letting anyone know that I don't know, I always explain that there is a lot of ways to make a knife and this is one of them, I tell them to find as many knife shops as they can and go to them and learn all they can, I have even gotten them appointments with other makers. It doesn't cost a dime to be nice!
Again I say, THANK YOU ALL! You guys are the best!!!!

Oh and BTW, VaughnT, Thanks for all the compliments, the guard shape is one that I've been seeing in Blade and the 2011 Knives, I like the look it gives and the added protection for the hand, I'm sure it doesn't need to be that far out in the front, it would probably look pretty good if it was the same size as the backside of the guard. After I finish this one, the next one in line is a BIG Fighter, it may have the same type of guard or it might be a lot different, who knows? That is the fun of it all, for me to be able to use my judgment and my creativity to put together a a tool both of function and beauty, it is AWESOME!!!!
Thanks Guys, Rex