Nickel 200/201 VS 15N20 ?

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Black Dragon Forge

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How does 15N20 work compared to nickel 200 or 201 ?

Ive only used nickle 200 and its great to use,never had a problum forge welding it..

I see so many use 15N20 i wonder why? cost or ??

I try to use it (n-200) as thin as i can get it.
 
Chele,
I use 15n20 mainly and N200 on a few of my billets.
Both give contrast to the damascus steel.. N200 is much brighter the 15n20 and both are commonly used and accepted..

I have always been told Nickle will not harden properly, If in fact N200 will not achieve a hardness of say 56/58 and 15n20 will.. then that would be one reason for using it primarily over N200.

Price is also a consideration.. But if N200 were somehow better then 15n20. Other then its brightness. Then I would pay that difference and use it on all my damascus.. I have read on this forum the N200 does not fully harden.. Just cant seem to find the post.. to quote or reference.. Sry.
 
Randy is correct in that Ni200/201 will not harden. Both are 99%+/- pure nickel. They will give outstanding contrast in a billet/blade, but since they are non-hardening, using them is a detriment to creating a functional knife.
15N20 is essentially 1075 steel, with a 1.5% nickel content. It is fully hardenable, much less expensive than high nickel alloys, and here's the best part.....it is extremely compatible with 1080/1084....meaning that it has very similar expansion/contraction properties. This makes it an ideal choice for damascus, because you welding two very similar alloys, that will not try to tear themselves apart as other alloys might. (for example when hardening/quenching).

There is a reason you see most of the major makers using it..... :)
 
Randy and Ed mega thanks...those of us in s.calif in the late 80's used N200...we got it cheap from a guy in the bay area...back then it was all that was used.as there was only Jim Hrisoulas and I in southern California..A few non smiths used it like Jim Fergerson,Bob Engnath and Bill Herndon. ,.Ive never had any problems with it and if it did not harden up i see no problem as in damascus the steel cut..and you know its only used for striking contrast when blued.

Jim Fergerson of Twisted Nickle used it by the ton i think ,as he sold bars thru Bob Engnaths house of mussel loaders in glendale,ca ...He had a HUGE 12' Chicago press brake that he had in his sheet metal shop,which he set up to crunch bars in one shot..I will try 15N20 ...I still have N200 left over from years past.. Useing 15N20 is there and heating tips i need to know?

thank you both for your most valuable input.
 
If you're experienced with making damascus, and have never used 15N20 and 1080/1084 mix, you're gona slap yourself on the forehead and say "Why did I do this sooner?!" when you use it. The two materials are so compatible that you can literally tie a knot in a billet, and won't get shearing or delaminations. Heat treating is very easy.....austinize at 1550F, quench in oil, and then temper in the 400-450F range (depending on what level of hardness you're seeking).
Using pure nickel has always been one of those "trade offs" we all face as knifemakers. Those folks you mentioned (I've been around long enough to have known most of them) used it specifically for the contrast effect it offered....but I can remember Bob Engnath telling me once that he wished he could find something for contrast besides nickel....simply because of it's impact on a blade's cutting ability. He knew it then, but at the time none of us had ever heard of 15N20.....now a days, it's considered the "standard" for most non-stainless Damascus applications.
 
ed i hear ya.....Bob Engnath got most of the twisted nickle stuff jim furgerson made (they was best of friends.jim good people) and ground it and sold it..back then there 15n20 was not known so we worked with what we had..for the most part 98% of the damascus i saw sold or collected would seldom ever get used...if nothing else it created a minunte gap you only could see under a micro scope..so it was like stacking hundreds of razor blades with a nickle spacer ..fyi:Bob Engnath probly ground over 30,000 knives..few know that.i seen him take blank steel and have a great katana in less than 30 mins..I do miss him alot stefaney also.thou i hear she in NY...wish i could find her..they did not come better than BOB ENGNATH...

fyi..i know im sorted of dating my old butt lol...after looseing over $300k in san diego i managed to save my tools and eqt...thou they was in storage and only the last year do they have a permanent home i own..im rusty as they say,,but most knoledge i have is still good but new ideas like 15n20 i like what i hear..with help from nice people like you and randy plus others ill get into it again.

when i was bladesmithing in s.cafif there was only a few that messed around with knives and they was ferriers.i was the only bladesmith in s.calif that i knew as jim hsisrioulas moved to NV...
i know you know burt gaston ..he was my anvil mate at abs school in 88....in 1989 i had tim hancock was in my damascus class with Bill Moran.lol..most of all i studied with that stuck with it are MS or top notch..i just manage to keep my feet wet when i could..hopefully soon ill get things rolling.

question in your opion what do you think of this nitrogen quenching i see being done for heat treating?
 
Chele,
I don't know if your remember me from Jim's list, but it's so GREAT to see you here, looking forward to what you're up to!
Guys, do know this lady is awesome! and knows what she's doing in a smithy, and makes some pretty wild stuff too!
Rex
 
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