Roman knot file work?
- Thread starter Tony Manifold
- Start date
Frank Niro
KNIFE MAKER
Well done, and as I suspected, in knife making there really aren't many true secrets. There are too many inquiring minds. I will never use that pattern but perhaps a few watching this thread will. thank you again Smallshop ! Frank
J. Doyle
Dealer - Purveyor
I had a conversation with one of my good friends about things of this nature recently (actually yesterday).
Like smallshop demonstrated............evaluate something and decide if you feel you are skilled enough to attempt it and give it a shot or decide it's above your skill set and leave it alone for awhile. There is nothing wrong with asking questions of a maker on how he accomplished something. Often times, it's how you go about asking (and think about that, it could include a LOT of variables) that determines the end result.
There's also nothing wrong with a maker keeping some things to himself if he so chooses. We have all seen a HUGE influx of new makers recently, many of them doing quite well due to the free sharing if info and all the online tutorials and such. The pool of talented makers is increasing while the pool of collectors seems to be not increasing, at least not nearly as fast as the makers. That makes it much more of a challenge to create something different and unique to stand out from the pack. But that's what you have to do to make continual sales and stay in business.
Example: I recently made a knife that was very unique and different, nothing revolutionary really, but not your everyday knife. I've had TONS of compliments, folks saying it was the most unique knife they'd seen in a while and plenty of questions about it. I worked hard to make something different, eye appealing and unique. It was rewarding pulling it off.
I had a nice enough fellow email me saying how much he liked it and if I would walk him through it step by step over phone and email so he could build that exact knife. Among several other reasons, I declined largely because I made that knife uniquely mine and it was a success and I'm just plain not interested in teaching someone else how to copy it exactly. Especially over phone and email.
Now, that said, I think anyone who has reached out to me for tips on how I do things has found that I try to be very free and friendly with my sharing of knowledge. I have no issues with "Hey how do you do that thing?" or "what tool did you use to do that?" or "How did you hold that together" that sort of thing. But to walk someone through step by step to build my knives exactly.................not interested. Period.
I have no hard feelings, it's just not something I'm going to do. Every craftsman has little details about how he does things that he might keep to himself. That's what makes many just a little bit better than most and that's what keeps a guy at the top of the heap. There's nothing wrong with that. In reality, even those 'secrets' get shared. Often it's more about the friendships and the personality traits that a one craftsman recognizes in another that dictates who those 'secrets' get passed on to.
Going back to how a maker is asked to share something, for a minute: One problem that is getting bigger all the time is some of these newer makers (often young people) because of this new age of instant info on the web, seem to have this sense of entitlement and they want instant gratification. They think the older group of makers that worked hard, asked a few questions then put the time in and developed their craft, owe them an explanation on every little thing, and they want it right now. That will drive most makers into 'keeping secrets' very quickly.
Just my perspective.
Like smallshop demonstrated............evaluate something and decide if you feel you are skilled enough to attempt it and give it a shot or decide it's above your skill set and leave it alone for awhile. There is nothing wrong with asking questions of a maker on how he accomplished something. Often times, it's how you go about asking (and think about that, it could include a LOT of variables) that determines the end result.
There's also nothing wrong with a maker keeping some things to himself if he so chooses. We have all seen a HUGE influx of new makers recently, many of them doing quite well due to the free sharing if info and all the online tutorials and such. The pool of talented makers is increasing while the pool of collectors seems to be not increasing, at least not nearly as fast as the makers. That makes it much more of a challenge to create something different and unique to stand out from the pack. But that's what you have to do to make continual sales and stay in business.
Example: I recently made a knife that was very unique and different, nothing revolutionary really, but not your everyday knife. I've had TONS of compliments, folks saying it was the most unique knife they'd seen in a while and plenty of questions about it. I worked hard to make something different, eye appealing and unique. It was rewarding pulling it off.
I had a nice enough fellow email me saying how much he liked it and if I would walk him through it step by step over phone and email so he could build that exact knife. Among several other reasons, I declined largely because I made that knife uniquely mine and it was a success and I'm just plain not interested in teaching someone else how to copy it exactly. Especially over phone and email.
Now, that said, I think anyone who has reached out to me for tips on how I do things has found that I try to be very free and friendly with my sharing of knowledge. I have no issues with "Hey how do you do that thing?" or "what tool did you use to do that?" or "How did you hold that together" that sort of thing. But to walk someone through step by step to build my knives exactly.................not interested. Period.
I have no hard feelings, it's just not something I'm going to do. Every craftsman has little details about how he does things that he might keep to himself. That's what makes many just a little bit better than most and that's what keeps a guy at the top of the heap. There's nothing wrong with that. In reality, even those 'secrets' get shared. Often it's more about the friendships and the personality traits that a one craftsman recognizes in another that dictates who those 'secrets' get passed on to.
Going back to how a maker is asked to share something, for a minute: One problem that is getting bigger all the time is some of these newer makers (often young people) because of this new age of instant info on the web, seem to have this sense of entitlement and they want instant gratification. They think the older group of makers that worked hard, asked a few questions then put the time in and developed their craft, owe them an explanation on every little thing, and they want it right now. That will drive most makers into 'keeping secrets' very quickly.
Just my perspective.
Smallshop
KNIFE MAKER
I've been to a lot of knife shows over the years. I've made a few knives. I have never asked a custom knife maker how he did something. And NOT because they weren't willing or friendly. Knife makers seem friendly almost to a fault.....
I view custom knife makers as artists. Each one has a style and it bleeds through clearly in their work. If I want to learn something I pick up the little jewel sitting on their bench and scrutinize it closely. If they see you really looking at a knife they usually will share something and if they don't it's because they didn't want to. It's kind enough that they let you handle these little gems that took many hours to finish.
Asking a knife maker to walk you through each step of his process is somewhat akin to asking Pablo Picasso to help you finish a paint by number painting. You won't end up with a Picasso. Every artist has a style and it didn't develop overnight. Everyone needs to develop their OWN style.
I like the fact that there are knives that I don't like. I see things at shows that are so different from what I think of as beautiful and yet they are of superb quality and seem to sell well. Diversity of artistic expression is one of the things that makes the 'ol world go round.....
J Doyle, your points are very well stated. Thank you for sharing.
I view custom knife makers as artists. Each one has a style and it bleeds through clearly in their work. If I want to learn something I pick up the little jewel sitting on their bench and scrutinize it closely. If they see you really looking at a knife they usually will share something and if they don't it's because they didn't want to. It's kind enough that they let you handle these little gems that took many hours to finish.
Asking a knife maker to walk you through each step of his process is somewhat akin to asking Pablo Picasso to help you finish a paint by number painting. You won't end up with a Picasso. Every artist has a style and it didn't develop overnight. Everyone needs to develop their OWN style.
I like the fact that there are knives that I don't like. I see things at shows that are so different from what I think of as beautiful and yet they are of superb quality and seem to sell well. Diversity of artistic expression is one of the things that makes the 'ol world go round.....
J Doyle, your points are very well stated. Thank you for sharing.
Calvin Robinson
Moderator Christian Forum
I had a conversation with one of my good friends about things of this nature recently (actually yesterday).
Like smallshop demonstrated............evaluate something and decide if you feel you are skilled enough to attempt it and give it a shot or decide it's above your skill set and leave it alone for awhile. There is nothing wrong with asking questions of a maker on how he accomplished something. Often times, it's how you go about asking (and think about that, it could include a LOT of variables) that determines the end result.
There's also nothing wrong with a maker keeping some things to himself if he so chooses. We have all seen a HUGE influx of new makers recently, many of them doing quite well due to the free sharing if info and all the online tutorials and such. The pool of talented makers is increasing while the pool of collectors seems to be not increasing, at least not nearly as fast as the makers. That makes it much more of a challenge to create something different and unique to stand out from the pack. But that's what you have to do to make continual sales and stay in business.
Example: I recently made a knife that was very unique and different, nothing revolutionary really, but not your everyday knife. I've had TONS of compliments, folks saying it was the most unique knife they'd seen in a while and plenty of questions about it. I worked hard to make something different, eye appealing and unique. It was rewarding pulling it off.
I had a nice enough fellow email me saying how much he liked it and if I would walk him through it step by step over phone and email so he could build that exact knife. Among several other reasons, I declined largely because I made that knife uniquely mine and it was a success and I'm just plain not interested in teaching someone else how to copy it exactly. Especially over phone and email.
Now, that said, I think anyone who has reached out to me for tips on how I do things has found that I try to be very free and friendly with my sharing of knowledge. I have no issues with "Hey how do you do that thing?" or "what tool did you use to do that?" or "How did you hold that together" that sort of thing. But to walk someone through step by step to build my knives exactly.................not interested. Period.
I have no hard feelings, it's just not something I'm going to do. Every craftsman has little details about how he does things that he might keep to himself. That's what makes many just a little bit better than most and that's what keeps a guy at the top of the heap. There's nothing wrong with that. In reality, even those 'secrets' get shared. Often it's more about the friendships and the personality traits that a one craftsman recognizes in another that dictates who those 'secrets' get passed on to.
Going back to how a maker is asked to share something, for a minute: One problem that is getting bigger all the time is some of these newer makers (often young people) because of this new age of instant info on the web, seem to have this sense of entitlement and they want instant gratification. They think the older group of makers that worked hard, asked a few questions then put the time in and developed their craft, owe them an explanation on every little thing, and they want it right now. That will drive most makers into 'keeping secrets' very quickly.
Just my perspective.
John,
Be careful! You will be accused of being "full of yourself". :biggrin:
curtisk
Well-Known Member
Mr. Doyle, thank you for your comments. I think you really hit the nail on the head sir. It takes time to learn, and patience to master what you learned. And "Smallshop", we really need more guys like you at the shows. I swear, after about the 20th guy asks me the "how I did that" question at a show, I am tempted to respond with "I didn't, I have my little sweatshop kids do it. Ask them!"
Don McNeil
Well-Known Member
J Doyle you really did touch on something that I have been saying for years in regards to the younger generations. It is prevalent in almost every aspect of our lives. When I was young I was into magic and in those very distant Pre- internet days if you wanted to learn something you had to learn it from a book or figure it out completely on your own. I still occasionally do a magic trick here and there and all three of my sons at various times thought hey I would like to do that. Here is what I did for them...I taught them each one trick and then told them if they learned three more tricks on their own and came back and showed me then I would teach them something else. To date I have not taught any more tricks. I just proved they were more interested in knowing how it was done rather than being able to do it. The internet has been a very good thing but it does have its downside. I still have the first book I bought on knifemaking when I was 14. It was David Boye's book Step-by-step Knifemaking. Ironically I didn't actually start making knives till I was 46. I have tried to teach my boys to be patient when learning anything but it still seems as if they get agitated when it doesn't come quickly. They just like their old dad are still a work in progress. Smallshop your first "stab"at the Roman knot came off very well and will serve many as a starting point for their own endeavors...BRAVO. We should not disparage anyone for keeping their word as that is what we as men should do. I am just thankful for this forum as I have had the opportunity to receive advice from many makers from all levels of knife making. ANd I hope I never stop learning...and maybe someday I can be the guy teaching or helping someone else along their journey. Have a great day everyone I will jump off the soapbox now.
Don McNeil
Don McNeil
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Smallshop
KNIFE MAKER
" I just proved they were more interested in knowing how it was done rather than being able to do it."
I see this also and feel that many of the modern game stations are to blame. In one very intense session a young person can move very quickly through the "learning curve" and usually "master" it in a few sessions. So, learning becomes a mode of adrenaline fueled intensity with instant results rather than patience building repetition (the way most of us older guys have learned things).
this forum is certainly helpful on many levels. J Doyles post above helped crystalize my thinking on some areas the business/personal aspect of knife making. Hearing thoughtful input from other people does shape our thinking.....as it should.
I see this also and feel that many of the modern game stations are to blame. In one very intense session a young person can move very quickly through the "learning curve" and usually "master" it in a few sessions. So, learning becomes a mode of adrenaline fueled intensity with instant results rather than patience building repetition (the way most of us older guys have learned things).
this forum is certainly helpful on many levels. J Doyles post above helped crystalize my thinking on some areas the business/personal aspect of knife making. Hearing thoughtful input from other people does shape our thinking.....as it should.
bladegrinder
Well-Known Member
Thanks J Doyle,I agree that you pretty much hit it on the head. that's pretty much how I feel but wasn't sure how to put it out there.
I started making knives about 24 years ago and at that time I didn't really know there were other people doing this,over the next few years I met a few other makers in my area at gun shows and word of mouth.{this was way before the internet}.I didn't really ask too many questions of these folks at the time,preferring to go with what I knew and learn from mistakes.There was one maker that would not tell me anything,even what kind of oil he used on his sheaths,everything was a big secret.to this day I just find this attitude rather funny more than anything else,it is what it is.I enjoy telling people how I do things.....but if someone were to ask me how to do it step by step over time I think I might be somewhat offended thinking this person is looking for easy street.another thing I have found{since I'm in typing mode}is folks who want to come to my shop to learn.I don't have a problem with that if that's what they intend,but as a part time maker my time is valuable.I've had people come to my shop with the intent to learn how to make knives with their dog running around or bringing very young children, what are they thinking ? I had one guy come over with a 12 pack of beer,I don't drink but still,what are you thinking.maybe I'm just to deep in the city.one way I look at it is my shop is small and packed and as far as I'm concerned there's death at every turn Ha Ha.not really but I'm sure everyone knows what I mean.shop tours are a pleasure but I find it hard to differentiate who wants to learn and be a knifemaker and who will drop the idea before their first knife is done.so at this point in my knifemaking career I try to answer most all questions I can but every knifemaker has a line that they have to draw when it comes to their time or something new or exceptionally cool they figured out on there own after hours of trial and error possibly spending a lot of money in the process only to spend even more time showing someone how to do it then they drop off the radar a month later or worse yet hearing that they were trying to take credit for the idea.
I started making knives about 24 years ago and at that time I didn't really know there were other people doing this,over the next few years I met a few other makers in my area at gun shows and word of mouth.{this was way before the internet}.I didn't really ask too many questions of these folks at the time,preferring to go with what I knew and learn from mistakes.There was one maker that would not tell me anything,even what kind of oil he used on his sheaths,everything was a big secret.to this day I just find this attitude rather funny more than anything else,it is what it is.I enjoy telling people how I do things.....but if someone were to ask me how to do it step by step over time I think I might be somewhat offended thinking this person is looking for easy street.another thing I have found{since I'm in typing mode}is folks who want to come to my shop to learn.I don't have a problem with that if that's what they intend,but as a part time maker my time is valuable.I've had people come to my shop with the intent to learn how to make knives with their dog running around or bringing very young children, what are they thinking ? I had one guy come over with a 12 pack of beer,I don't drink but still,what are you thinking.maybe I'm just to deep in the city.one way I look at it is my shop is small and packed and as far as I'm concerned there's death at every turn Ha Ha.not really but I'm sure everyone knows what I mean.shop tours are a pleasure but I find it hard to differentiate who wants to learn and be a knifemaker and who will drop the idea before their first knife is done.so at this point in my knifemaking career I try to answer most all questions I can but every knifemaker has a line that they have to draw when it comes to their time or something new or exceptionally cool they figured out on there own after hours of trial and error possibly spending a lot of money in the process only to spend even more time showing someone how to do it then they drop off the radar a month later or worse yet hearing that they were trying to take credit for the idea.
Tony Manifold
Well-Known Member
To complete the thread drift, what is the etiquette for a shop visit? There is a maker and hour or so away from me, and I would like to meet and see how he does things but I have only seen his website, I have no contact with him. It would be different with someone who posted here, which would at least be some common ground.
bladegrinder
Well-Known Member
Tony,here is what I would kind of expect to hear from you. Steve,I was looking over your website and really liked your work,I'm not looking to buy but I have been making knives myself for a while now and was wondering if you'd have some time available to show me your shop and maybe some of the processes you use,heat-treat,grinding,handle fit and finish and maybe some sheath making.I live about an hour or so away.
personally,I would probably set a time and date,actually I'd be impressed if someone drove an hour or so just to visit me and my shop.
just no children,pets or beer and don't feel intimidated by the gun on my side. Steve.
personally,I would probably set a time and date,actually I'd be impressed if someone drove an hour or so just to visit me and my shop.
just no children,pets or beer and don't feel intimidated by the gun on my side. Steve.
Justin Presson
Well-Known Member
I have to say as a rookie it continues to amaze me of the generosity of the more experienced knifemakers who are willing to share info. Darrin Sanders(hope he don't mind) has taken some of my phone calls and several emails and answered a ton of questions. I have told him several times if I'm bugging him to let me know and I will back off and have to say he has kept answering my questions and saved me so much time and grief that I very much appreciaate. I think if he had something he did not want to share I would completely respect that and try to tackle the issue my self.
C Craft
Well-Known Member
I have been trying to figure out how to address this without getting off subject but the whole conversation of trade secrets, is off subject!
Don, first let me say as a knife maker and as a moderator I respect you and your work. We live not but a stones throw from each other and even though I have never met you in person I can take one look at your work and recognize great work when I see it.
Im afraid we may have to just agree to disagree on the subject! My opinion and that is what it was, was not intended to be a personal attack on anyone! I tried to clarify my opinion on page 3 of this thread!
I am a card carrying member of the school of hard knocks, I have never felt entitled to anything I didn't earn! I could sit here and go on with a long story about my own experiences, trying to make my point but I have already said what I had to say!
I have learned a few things in this ole world, "we all put our britches on one leg at a time", and "a hand up can lead too something promising, sometimes"!
I respect yours and any makers right to have and keep any secret you may want too. However I don't feel that way and if I can offer anyone a hand I don't mind at all! I will be dead and gone one day and if I imparted a bit of my knowledge to you before I go, well then that is one of the best things I can leave behind! Again my opinion!:biggrin:
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Smallshop
KNIFE MAKER
I think everyone here has been in agreement that if you say you will keep a trade secret you should honor that.
When I first read that some fellow would share with a couple guys and not everyone I thought it a bit stingy.
After reading J doyle's post and actually thinking a while I have changed my position.
I think his post kinda says it all. Maybe not everyone agrees but you can't argue his logic.....
When I first read that some fellow would share with a couple guys and not everyone I thought it a bit stingy.
After reading J doyle's post and actually thinking a while I have changed my position.
I think his post kinda says it all. Maybe not everyone agrees but you can't argue his logic.....
Tony Manifold
Well-Known Member
Agreed. While I think it is kind of dumb to keep some file work secret, if you have given your word, you have to keep it.
Smallshop
KNIFE MAKER
"The pool of talented makers is increasing while the pool of collectors seems to be not increasing, at least not nearly as fast as the makers. That makes it much more of a challenge to create something different and unique to stand out from the pack. But that's what you have to do to make continual sales and stay in business." J Doyle
This is the thought that changed my thinking.....
In product development your intellectual property is the design of the product. (mostly) In any artisan trade your intellectual property is the little secrets that allow you to makes something nicer, fast, better than the rest of the pack.
If the collective goal is to level the playing field, the uniqueness of each maker will eventually be lost. There is enough available info for any new knifemaker to never have to ask a single question if they are determined to learn. In fact the you-tubes and forums are enough to gag a newbie with info overload....I know.
The more advanced guys have a different perspective because....they're more advanced in the trade. I think a guy like Tracy M has done everything possible to make learning this trade easier. I don't expect him to cough up everything he knows though....
We need to resist Walmart thinking here. Artists have a right to withhold or share their methods. It's their choice. They need to wisely decide whether they want to be starving artists or well fed ones....
The trick isn't in agreeing to slice the pie thinner but in collectively working to make a bigger pie.....
I contend that most americans have NEVER used a real nice knife. But most claim to like em. Go into any friends home and grab a knife and feel the edge. Nuff said.....But that's where the market is.
This is the thought that changed my thinking.....
In product development your intellectual property is the design of the product. (mostly) In any artisan trade your intellectual property is the little secrets that allow you to makes something nicer, fast, better than the rest of the pack.
If the collective goal is to level the playing field, the uniqueness of each maker will eventually be lost. There is enough available info for any new knifemaker to never have to ask a single question if they are determined to learn. In fact the you-tubes and forums are enough to gag a newbie with info overload....I know.
The more advanced guys have a different perspective because....they're more advanced in the trade. I think a guy like Tracy M has done everything possible to make learning this trade easier. I don't expect him to cough up everything he knows though....
We need to resist Walmart thinking here. Artists have a right to withhold or share their methods. It's their choice. They need to wisely decide whether they want to be starving artists or well fed ones....
The trick isn't in agreeing to slice the pie thinner but in collectively working to make a bigger pie.....
I contend that most americans have NEVER used a real nice knife. But most claim to like em. Go into any friends home and grab a knife and feel the edge. Nuff said.....But that's where the market is.
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Since we are jumping around a bit....let's really get off topic..cause we can and no one is getting hurt here...
anyone that brings over their kids, their dog, a gun we can shoot and beer is going to be welcome at my shop more than the guy that expects me to donate days of my time so he can save himself a little effort. I have hours for friends and a couple polite minutes for takers.
J Doyle made a great comment about more makers coming online than collectors. I had to think about this one. I may have more than average direct exposure to new guys coming into the hobby (or business, depending on your goals). New guys to the hobby/business all buy knives in addition to making them.
I agree the old collectors are exiting the hobby, not as active or even dying off. I am talking about the big Bowie collectors or the shiny 4" hunter knife collectors. They are being replaced by the 20 to 40 year old something guy that buys folders and not cheap ones either. There are more new folder collectors/traders/enthusiasts now than there ever was of the Bowie guys. These guys spend serious, serious money on their collection. Balisong collectors didn't exist 20 years ago. They are a small, but fiercely dedicated group of collectors that live to add or trade into their collection. If you own one bali, you own at least five.
If a maker is trying to make a living on just big Bowie blades and 4" Lovelass style hunters, he is probably starving or sees knife collecting in decline. I can assure you, knife collecting is not in decline. It is just changing.
The bubble burst on buying customs and reselling them for more money a year or two later. I'm not sure that will come back. It was frivolous all along and depended on new guys buying old guys stock and trying to flip it for more later to make money. It had to collapse eventually. It's common to see high end, high quality customs going for less, not more, on the secondary market know.
I have been watching guys start the hobby, sell a few fixed blades, move to folders and blow up (in a good way) for several years. Society doesn't tolerate big fixed blades on your belt anymore like anyone over 40 may recall. A quality folder carries discreetly in your pocket and doesn't get the gun and knife grabbers all worked up.
I look at every single sales order that goes through my business and have for the eight years we have been in business.
The trend today is moving toward liner lock heavy duty folders and big utility military looking fixed blades. We have hundreds of thousands of former military buying these. I'd include high end flippers also in this. There is still a market for high end slip joints but a maker has to earn name recognition.
The trend is away from 4" hunters of any kind, (quality Lovelass look or other) and big Bowie blades. Are guys still selling the big bowies and 4" hunters? Absolutely. It will never completely go away. They are fun to make and as long as people hunt, there will be demand for a 4" hunter. As long as there is Texas, Bowies will sell. Making these is a great way to get into the hobby/trade.
I think think tomorrow's "successful" makers will specialize in smaller, easier to carry tactical style folders. (The size on some of these folders today is crazy big.) They will be the new Case or Swiss pocket knife. I also think kitchen knives are an untapped market that a savvy maker/marketer could really do well with. We have millions of baby boomers retiring with time and money in hand. Many are looking at cooking as recreation want tools to help with it.
Art folders are interesting and seem to do well. The time put into some of them doesn't allow for a lot of income for the maker though. It has to be a labor of love because you want get rich making art folders.
One last point I'd make. Knifemaking has turned into a business more than any other hobby I have seen. Nothing wrong with that but it does change things a bit. We have more full time makers than ever. We have umpteen more part time makers than ever. I would say the majority look to sell at least some knives. This is different than wood working guys, hobby RC guys, fishing guys, shooting guys, scented candle making guys (hah!), or most any other hobby out there.
These are just opinions. I am entitled to be wrong and don't mind anyone disagreeing with me. It's healthy that we don't all have identical opinions. Sorry to be long winded this morning....
anyone that brings over their kids, their dog, a gun we can shoot and beer is going to be welcome at my shop more than the guy that expects me to donate days of my time so he can save himself a little effort. I have hours for friends and a couple polite minutes for takers.
J Doyle made a great comment about more makers coming online than collectors. I had to think about this one. I may have more than average direct exposure to new guys coming into the hobby (or business, depending on your goals). New guys to the hobby/business all buy knives in addition to making them.
I agree the old collectors are exiting the hobby, not as active or even dying off. I am talking about the big Bowie collectors or the shiny 4" hunter knife collectors. They are being replaced by the 20 to 40 year old something guy that buys folders and not cheap ones either. There are more new folder collectors/traders/enthusiasts now than there ever was of the Bowie guys. These guys spend serious, serious money on their collection. Balisong collectors didn't exist 20 years ago. They are a small, but fiercely dedicated group of collectors that live to add or trade into their collection. If you own one bali, you own at least five.
If a maker is trying to make a living on just big Bowie blades and 4" Lovelass style hunters, he is probably starving or sees knife collecting in decline. I can assure you, knife collecting is not in decline. It is just changing.
The bubble burst on buying customs and reselling them for more money a year or two later. I'm not sure that will come back. It was frivolous all along and depended on new guys buying old guys stock and trying to flip it for more later to make money. It had to collapse eventually. It's common to see high end, high quality customs going for less, not more, on the secondary market know.
I have been watching guys start the hobby, sell a few fixed blades, move to folders and blow up (in a good way) for several years. Society doesn't tolerate big fixed blades on your belt anymore like anyone over 40 may recall. A quality folder carries discreetly in your pocket and doesn't get the gun and knife grabbers all worked up.
I look at every single sales order that goes through my business and have for the eight years we have been in business.
The trend today is moving toward liner lock heavy duty folders and big utility military looking fixed blades. We have hundreds of thousands of former military buying these. I'd include high end flippers also in this. There is still a market for high end slip joints but a maker has to earn name recognition.
The trend is away from 4" hunters of any kind, (quality Lovelass look or other) and big Bowie blades. Are guys still selling the big bowies and 4" hunters? Absolutely. It will never completely go away. They are fun to make and as long as people hunt, there will be demand for a 4" hunter. As long as there is Texas, Bowies will sell. Making these is a great way to get into the hobby/trade.
I think think tomorrow's "successful" makers will specialize in smaller, easier to carry tactical style folders. (The size on some of these folders today is crazy big.) They will be the new Case or Swiss pocket knife. I also think kitchen knives are an untapped market that a savvy maker/marketer could really do well with. We have millions of baby boomers retiring with time and money in hand. Many are looking at cooking as recreation want tools to help with it.
Art folders are interesting and seem to do well. The time put into some of them doesn't allow for a lot of income for the maker though. It has to be a labor of love because you want get rich making art folders.
One last point I'd make. Knifemaking has turned into a business more than any other hobby I have seen. Nothing wrong with that but it does change things a bit. We have more full time makers than ever. We have umpteen more part time makers than ever. I would say the majority look to sell at least some knives. This is different than wood working guys, hobby RC guys, fishing guys, shooting guys, scented candle making guys (hah!), or most any other hobby out there.
These are just opinions. I am entitled to be wrong and don't mind anyone disagreeing with me. It's healthy that we don't all have identical opinions. Sorry to be long winded this morning....
Mike Martinez
Well-Known Member
Well said Tracy and just my two cents but there is also a huge insurgence of custom kitchen knife buyers as well as straight razors. Even though some markets have dwindled other have grown with the trend to buy American and buy handmade.