Torch Tempering Questions

R

remist17

Well-Known Member
Hello all. Im just starting out making knives for my family. I have made three kit knives and had some good success. I would like to start making my own now. Again I am making these for the family so maybe 2 to 3 knives a year. I do not have the money to get special heat ovens. I have done some reading on torch tempering but would like to learn more about the method. I was hoping someone could point me to some books, videos or post that can explain to a new person like me.

I did do some searches for torch tempering. I found discussions on what torch to use in a brick oven. I hope this makes sense. If anyone can point me to a better method or explain how to set up a simple brick oven I would appreciate the time. Again I’m new and I am sure I am not asking the correct questions.
 
If you google "one brick knife forge" or "two brick knife forge" you will get all the information that you are looking for, I think.

It is hard to understand what it is that you are asking. I went on the presumption that you wish to set up a one brick or two brick forge with a simple propane bottle. Am I right?

Here is a good reference for forges in general. http://zoellerforge.com/

DeMo
 
I don't recommend torch tempering because it depends on color judgement which is effected by ambient lighting. Also the time is very short compared with an oven. If you can't have access to the kitchen oven to heat treat, the next best thing is a toaster over. That way you can soak the piece at temperature and get a more thorough heating of the blade.

Doug
 
Welcome to Knife dogs!!

If your talking about hardening the blade. a brick forge will work paired with some Canola oil to quickly cool the steel. hardening it. Then after the blade is hard. I a regular home oven or toaster oven will do the trick to temper it.

Google is a great resource and the key words "one brick knife forge" possibly adding how to make or build may narrow the results more to what you need.

Have fun.
Randy
 
Sorry if I made no sense. Ill try again. I want to start making my own knives from raw stock not a kit knife. I want to learn how to take flat stock cut it, file it and t harden/temper it myself. So if you could point out any books,dvd or threads I can read to start understanding what I need to do. How do I make a two brock forge and how I use it. Also I would like to learn what metal I should use.
Sorry for the confusion
 
The $50 Knife Shop gives some ideas on how to do things on a budget but I think Jim Hrisoulas's The Master Bladesmith describes the process better. There is also a sticky put up by Kevin Cashen that gives a good discussion on heat treatment right at the top of this section.

Doug
 
Google the 2 brick forge, they work great.

Go with an easy to heat treat steel like 5160 or 1084 ,quenched in canola or peanut oil, it makes great knives AND is easy to HT.
I see so many people steering new makers towards 1095, its not the best for beginners, trust me.

Dwane
 
Another option is you could send them out for heat treating? That's what I do. Just throwing that out there.

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Tempering is the process we use to draw the hardness back out of the knife after it has been hardened. After the quench, the blade is very brittle and extremely hard. It will literally break sometimes if you dropped it on the floor. I think your asking about heating up the the edge of the blade using an oxy acetylene torch and then quenching. Some guys do use a torch to do it, but it can be tricky and take some practice. Usually they only heat about a third of the way up the cutting edge moving the torch from one side to the other making sure it is heated evenly. I've never done it myself, but it can be done. Turn the lights out or do it at night so you can see how hot the steel is getting. Check it with a magnet until it doesn't stick and that should get you real close. Once it's there quench it in your heated oil. Like these guys say I would start with 1075 or 1080. Canola or peanut oil should work ok. Once quenched then go into toaster oven for tempering. Hope that helps

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Guys I know Im probably all over the board and Im understanding this better now. I want to make a knife from raw stock to finish blade. I see some guys taking the stock cutting out the pattern, putting a torch to it then shaping and putting a edge on it. Then putting the blade in a oven, then final sharpening. Im looking for a easy method to do this. I see the brick method and some semi forge process with charcoal. I am leaning to the charcoal in the old barbque.

I never thought about sending the blade out to some to heat treat. Is there preferences? I live in PA so I am not sure if there are any on the east coast. I sure would be open to this idea for sure.

Thank you all for your posts. I appreciate it.
 
If you are doing stock removal you can lay out the blade on the steel stock and cut it close to the line with an angle grinder and the refine the profile with a file. The steel should have come to you annealed so you shouldn't have to be heating the blade before shaping but 2 or 3 normalizing cycles after shaping and before austinizing prior to the quench are a good ides. After the quench you will need to temper the blade. The temperature is going to depend a lot on the alloy used. Tempering should be for 1 to 3 two hour cycles, again depending on alloy. For 1080, 1084, 80CrV2 I would do two cycles. For 5160 and 1075 you could make do with one cycle. The higher carbon steels such as 1095, the W series, 52100, or CruForgeV I would do three cycles. After hardening and tempering you grind in the secondary bevel, put a handle the knife and then put the final edge on it. Due to the hardness of the blade you may need to get a diamond file to cut the steel.

Doug
 
taylormadeknives said:
Tempering is the process we use to draw the hardness back out of the knife after it has been hardened. After the quench, the blade is very brittle and extremely hard. It will literally break sometimes if you dropped it on the floor. I think your asking about heating up the the edge of the blade using an oxy acetylene torch and then quenching. Some guys do use a torch to do it, but it can be tricky and take some practice. Usually they only heat about a third of the way up the cutting edge moving the torch from one side to the other making sure it is heated evenly. I've never done it myself, but it can be done. Turn the lights out or do it at night so you can see how hot the steel is getting. Check it with a magnet until it doesn't stick and that should get you real close. Once it's there quench it in your heated oil. Like these guys say I would start with 1075 or 1080. Canola or peanut oil should work ok. Once quenched then go into toaster oven for tempering. Hope that helps

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Click to expand...

Thats a great explanation. So YEA!! what he said.
 
Read This-http://knifedogs.com/showthread.php?28920-USAKnifemakers-Stage-1-knife-kit-Tutorial
It might help with some of your questions.
Fred
 
Thanks all. I guess Im going to read alot and then get some metal. Anyone recommend places to send blades to for heat treat? I figure I can work on shaping some blades while I am reading up on heat treatment.
 
thank you all. I appreciate all the help for the new guy!!!

I am really toying with the idea of making my own two brick or coffee can forge. Can you tell me how I can determine the temperature(color) for 1080 ( i think this is correct for a new guy)
 
Yes, 1080 is a good beginners' steel. It's so good that some just stay with it.

For austinizing with a brick or tin can forge you need to use a magnet more than judge by color. Ambient lighting can throw the color off. Heat the blade until the blade is non-magnetic and then let it get just a very little brighter. Hold at that color for about two minutes and then quench. Check the hardness with a good file. The file should not bight into the steel but skate across it. Then get it into the tempering oven as soon as it's cool enough to handle. You might also want to scrub the oil off with detergent if you are using the kitchen oven.

You can eventually learn to spot the decalesence in the steel. This is noted by a shadow that passes across the steel as the phases of the steel changes. It take a while to learn to spot it and it's easier to do in a dark shop. Some who use this technique actually wait until after sun set to harden their blades.

Doug
 
OK all thank you. I think I am getting close to figuring out how to start. Just need to build something to start out. Either the brick or can.
Any place you can recommend getting steel ? I am looking at USAknifemaker, 1084 Steel .180" x 1.5". Is this OK.


Is 1095 ok for a beginner? I have some of this in our shop.
 
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That 1084 is at that thickness should be fine for all but large heavy duty blades. I don't know if Tracy lists 1080 or 80CrV2 but they would be good too. The New Jersey Steel Baron a good place but Aldo sometimes gets a little short on his offerings.

Doug
 
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