What's going on in your shop?

Entropy762

Well-Known Member
Not knife related but finished my second Form 1 suppressor. A guy a work gave me more big saw blades to make more "tactical" kindling splitters.
 

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Entropy762

Well-Known Member
Thanks. 29 days. My first was 28 days for a 9mm suppressor. Using the eFile system makes it pretty easy. I even do my own finger prints. I just filed another Form 1 Monday for a SBS.
 

EdCaffreyMS

"The Montana Bladesmith"
Morning guys,
I am working on several blades ATM, a diy Forge, (Just built a small very inefficient forge) and a 2" x 72" grinder, oh and sheaths for two of the builds. Man I wish my boss would have waited one more week before calling me back! lol.

I just noticed.....is that air hose I see running propane to the burners on that forge? DANG MAN! Get rid of that an use GAS/PROPANE hose! Propane will eat through air hose, and there will be a smoking hole where you and your shop USED to be!!!

Just as dangerous is how those propane lines/hoses are running......heat travels up! The worst thing you can do when running fuel to a gas forge is to run the lines over/on top of the forge!

I'd much rather be talking to you.....than about you!
 

Jon Buescher

Well-Known Member
All morning I spent cleaning up my walleye rig. Now continuing working on my axe
 

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Jon Buescher

Well-Known Member
Tempering at 425 now. Had to grind deep as I overheated the steel and caused cracking. Body is a36, can’t find 1018 right now bit is 1084. I was able to grind out all but the crack at the bottom of the eye. This is Will be for me as a user and will not get a stamp
 

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AFreeman714

Member
I just noticed.....is that air hose I see running propane to the burners on that forge? DANG MAN! Get rid of that an use GAS/PROPANE hose! Propane will eat through air hose, and there will be a smoking hole where you and your shop USED to be!!!

Just as dangerous is how those propane lines/hoses are running......heat travels up! The worst thing you can do when running fuel to a gas forge is to run the lines over/on top of the forge!

I'd much rather be talking to you.....than about you!
Thank you Ed, I will rectify that right away, I was told at the Local hardware store that the hose would work fine for propane, I don't think our big box stores train their employe
I just noticed.....is that air hose I see running propane to the burners on that forge? DANG MAN! Get rid of that an use GAS/PROPANE hose! Propane will eat through air hose, and there will be a smoking hole where you and your shop USED to be!!!

Just as dangerous is how those propane lines/hoses are running......heat travels up! The worst thing you can do when running fuel to a gas forge is to run the lines over/on top of the forge!

I'd much rather be talking to you.....than about you!
Sorry for the half answer above, noticed I was running late for work!! Thanks Ed for the heads up, I had gas tubing in one hand and this in the other, the "Trained" help at my local big box store of which recently I have Lowe expectations, told me this would work fine and hold more pressure, at the time I did not know I would be running such low pressure, it will be remedied before the next fire up.
As for the Burners, (I am not dis agreeing, just curious) the majority of burner designs on the net show vertical style, even store bought forges, is there a safety feature I'm not aware of? I have studied hours of footage and plans before I started this, but in truth, I do not know everything about it so any help getting it right for my next forge build will be greatly appreciated!
Just a comical note here, when I lit it up first time, I had it positioned at my shop door, and was hiding behind a 2x4 and plywood wall reaching around to light it.....Hind sight is 20/20........Thanks again! Oh, here's a pic of my new build.
 

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EdCaffreyMS

"The Montana Bladesmith"
the majority of burner designs on the net show vertical style, even store bought forges, is there a safety feature I'm not aware of?
Not fussing at you...but that's the problem with the internet. It's like a bunch of lemmings.... If one person can get someone else to believe it, shortly there after it becomes fact.... especially in the realm of Forges and Forging steel..... one jumps off a cliff, and everybody is right behind them!
The reason you don't use air hose, is the same reason you have to switch hoses on a torch when you go from acetylene to propane for fuel.... propane has additional chemicals in it, that eats the hose away from the inside out. Depending on how much fuel you run through the a non-propane rated hose, you could use it for some time and not have any issue.... or, if you ran the forge for several hours a day, every day, the time for an situation would be much shorter......... but when a "situation" does occur, it would be catastrophic either way.

If you were to take that entire forge, and from standing in front of it....rotate it about 120 degrees to the right, then it would be far safer......at least once you change out the air hose for actual propane hose. The rotation I speak of would keep the hoses and the intake ends of the burners out of the rising heat's way. I just posted some info on forges over on KMT sales page blog yesterday..... here's a link: http://www.legacystudioproductions.net/knifemakertraining/2020/05/04/gas-propane-forges-a-primer/ If you look a the pics in the article, you'll notice that all the burners are below the forges...... this not only keep me safer, but in your case, with venturi burners, you will get higher heat/temps if the burners are low, sucking in cooler/denser air, versus being up high and sucking in heated/thinner air. ;) There are lots of "little" things with forges, that make a huge difference......and those "little" things come from using/doing it, versus reading about it somewhere, then posting it on the net for others to pickup, and stumble over...... that's what often chaps my behind...stuff being put up on the net, without the individual who's posting it, every having done it, or have any experience with it.
 

AFreeman714

Member
Not fussing at you...but that's the problem with the internet. It's like a bunch of lemmings.... If one person can get someone else to believe it, shortly there after it becomes fact.... especially in the realm of Forges and Forging steel..... one jumps off a cliff, and everybody is right behind them!
The reason you don't use air hose, is the same reason you have to switch hoses on a torch when you go from acetylene to propane for fuel.... propane has additional chemicals in it, that eats the hose away from the inside out. Depending on how much fuel you run through the a non-propane rated hose, you could use it for some time and not have any issue.... or, if you ran the forge for several hours a day, every day, the time for an situation would be much shorter......... but when a "situation" does occur, it would be catastrophic either way.

If you were to take that entire forge, and from standing in front of it....rotate it about 120 degrees to the right, then it would be far safer......at least once you change out the air hose for actual propane hose. The rotation I speak of would keep the hoses and the intake ends of the burners out of the rising heat's way. I just posted some info on forges over on KMT sales page blog yesterday..... here's a link: http://www.legacystudioproductions.net/knifemakertraining/2020/05/04/gas-propane-forges-a-primer/ If you look a the pics in the article, you'll notice that all the burners are below the forges...... this not only keep me safer, but in your case, with venturi burners, you will get higher heat/temps if the burners are low, sucking in cooler/denser air, versus being up high and sucking in heated/thinner air. ;) There are lots of "little" things with forges, that make a huge difference......and those "little" things come from using/doing it, versus reading about it somewhere, then posting it on the net for others to pickup, and stumble over...... that's what often chaps my behind...stuff being put up on the net, without the individual who's posting it, every having done it, or have any experience with it.
Good Morning Ed, Don't worry, Not taking this as fussing, this is valuable and lifesaving information, as far as the gas hose, went out at lunch yesterday and purchased that, I'm embarrassed I let that one slip by, and, I will rotate my forge to get the lines out of heats way, this is the first time I have actually had any help or guidance in this project, Thank you.
Now, a couple of questions if I could pick your brain for a moment, Most forges I see have smaller burn chambers, Is that for efficiency/ easier to maintain temp? And for the round forge I am building, I plan on using two "T-Rex style" burners, which are supposedly more efficient than what I'm using now, the depth of my forge chamber will be about 19-20" how far apart and where, (Front, center, back) should I locate the burners?
Thank you so much for your time and information, My wife thanks you also for keeping me around a little longer, (I think), Look forward to your answer.
P.S. One more question, Someone out there suggested getting a 30PSI Regulator for the propane supply, Is that necessary, from what I have seen so far, propane is run at a much lower PSI, Thx!
 

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EdCaffreyMS

"The Montana Bladesmith"
Most forges I see have smaller burn chambers, Is that for efficiency/ easier to maintain temp? And for the round forge I am building, I plan on using two "T-Rex style" burners, which are supposedly more efficient than what I'm using now, the depth of my forge chamber will be about 19-20" how far apart and where, (Front, center, back) should I locate the burners?
Yes, forge sizes are generally sized for the biggest work intended to be done in them, and because venturi burners don't heat as well or as efficiently as a blow burner, the forges using venturi burners are smaller by necessity. Honestly, there is nothing efficient about venturi burners compared to blown burners.
Yes, you will likely need a 30psi regulator, IF you every intend to get welding heat out of a forge with venturi burner(s)

I'm not going to attempt to answer the question about where to put the burners, simply because getting multiple venturi burners to work well/correctly, in the same forge is nearly impossible. To explain, I'll concentrate on a two burner setup here.

When fed off the same fuel supply, one burner will always get more fuel than the other, meaning one burner will burn hotter than the other, and all the things that go along with that occur. I've seen people waste literally months and months of their time goofing/trying to adjust multi venturi burner forges......and they never can.

Those who tell me they have a multi venturi burner forges that are "adjusted just fine", are ones I don't even bother trying to help, because they either have no clue, are are simply in denial.

The ONLY time I would recommend a venturi burner, is for a single burner application, and then for someone who will never require "welding heat", and/or who needs a forge that either requires no power, or must be portable. The placement of a burner depends on the given forge design, but for round, horizontal forges, a burner/burners should be positioned like depicted in the article above.... centered just below horizontal center, with a pronounced downward tangent/angle to the intake end of the burner. I single, correctly sized venturi burner, with a correctly sized forge interior is capable of heating approx 14-16" of interior length.

So how does one make a multi burner venturi setup work correctly? The only way I have ever seen it accomplished is to have completely separate/independent fuel systems to each burner, then each burner is adjust as if it were the only burner. Everybody has this fantasy that using a "T" to supply a single fuel line to two burners means they must be getting equal fuel.....and it's just not true. The line to one burner might be a bit longer or shorter then the other, the ID might vary, one burner may be "sucking" in more air...... or any of a hundred other things....but two venturi burners, running off the same fuel line never get the same amount of fuel. That means there will be hot/cold "spots" or "areas" within the forge. No big deal if general forging with "mild" steel is the intent, but it can be the difference between success and failure when it come to forge welding, or using alloys that have very narrow forging temp ranges.
I have no idea why so many beginners gravitate towards venturi burners....they are far more complicated, far more finicky to work with and adjust, and consume far more fuel than any blown style burner. Maybe it's back to the "lemmings"? I do use a venturi burner, but is is a single burner, in a small forge, used ONLY for general forging of knife steels...... on it's best day, it will top out at about 1975F.

Based on the pics you posted, I suspect that your forge is far too large for the burners you have. I would say that you are either going to have to down size the forge itself, or up size the burner(s).
When it comes to forges, it's always best to make/use burners that larger than what you think is necessary. That's because you can always "dial them back", where as if you the burner(s) are too small, and you reach the peak/top end of what a burner will put out, your only option then, is to buy or build a larger burner.
Sorry for being so long winded, and disrupting the flow of this thread!
 
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