Ebony questions???? HELP!!!!!!

McClellan Made Blades

McClellan Made Blades

Well-Known Member
Hey Dawgs,
I was over at my buddy Charlie Edmundson's shop last Sunday and he was telling me about some Ebony he got in, has anyone worked with it before? And if so, did you have any serious problems with shrinkage? He was telling me that, AFTER putting it on a knife it shrank (I think he said) an 1/8" practically over night. If you know how to deal with this problem or how to avoid it all together (not the wood) please shoot me some advice, I really would love to work with this wood, for the same reasons that everyone that does use it, it's freakin gorgeous! If the best advice is to leave it alone, I understand that sometimes even the best looking stuff isn't worth the headache.

BUT, so many makers are using it sucessfully, is it the type of thing where you have to cut it oversize and wait for it to shrink, maybe? I've been racking my brain, trying to figure it out, I know it's a dense wood, he has a moisture meter, and he cut a piece of it dead in half, the moisture content was 8%, in Alabama that is as dry as any of it will get, if any one knows what the deal is please help, Thanks, Rex
 
Hi Rex,
First of all what kind of ebony is it? Theres a whole bunch of different kinds out there. Was it stabilized professionally? What kind of meter is he using? Lingomat or a HF cheapie? If its dry I would cut it oversized and send it out to have it done. That will reduce your shrink and swell. Its not a guarantee that it wont move, but its a good start. Larry
 
My recommendation is to use African Blackwood instead of Ebony. Ebony is like concrete, it's not a matter of IF it will check, crack, or shrink....it's a matter of WHEN. Even when stabilized, you will experience the same things with it...just to a lesser degree. I simply will not use Ebony on a knife...in my experience it will always come back to haunt you later.
 
EdCaffreyMS said:
My recommendation is to use African Blackwood instead of Ebony. Ebony is like concrete, it's not a matter of IF it will check, crack, or shrink....it's a matter of WHEN. Even when stabilized, you will experience the same things with it...just to a lesser degree. I simply will not use Ebony on a knife...in my experience it will always come back to haunt you later.
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Ditto
 
Shaughnessy said:
Hi Rex,
First of all what kind of ebony is it? Theres a whole bunch of different kinds out there. Was it stabilized professionally? What kind of meter is he using? Lingomat or a HF cheapie? If its dry I would cut it oversized and send it out to have it done. That will reduce your shrink and swell. Its not a guarantee that it wont move, but its a good start. Larry
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Larry,
Thanks for the response, he said it's Ceyleon, I'm not sure how to spell it, he bought it from a guitar store that went out of business. Charlie at one time was a master wood worker, making everything from furniture to pool cues, although he never worked with Ebony before, so I believe his moisture meter is probably a good one. I'm pretty sure it's not stabilized. I'm hoping I can buy some of it, provided stabilizing it would decrease the shrinkage, and make it usable without the problems of shrinking. How much could that cost? This wood is incredibly dense, and pretty oily, so how much of the chemicals can it absorb? I appreciate you taking the time to answer these questions, I've bought some great wood from you before so I feel like you know what you're talking about. Thanks Bud!, Rex
 
EdCaffreyMS said:
My recommendation is to use African Blackwood instead of Ebony. Ebony is like concrete, it's not a matter of IF it will check, crack, or shrink....it's a matter of WHEN. Even when stabilized, you will experience the same things with it...just to a lesser degree. I simply will not use Ebony on a knife...in my experience it will always come back to haunt you later.
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Thanks Ed,
With that said, why do so many makers use it? Are you saying it will check , crack or shrink even after the knife is made and sat up awhile? Or is the movement more during the working time? That would make me sick to see a knife that came back because the wood cracked, just had another sick thought, of all the absolutely gorgeous knives I've seen with Ebony on them, man that would be a bummer to see a prized blade with a crack in the handle! Sick doesn't even come close to that disappointment. Ok, how about this idea, if I can get it at a really good price, have it stabilized, is there a particular design that might be better about handling the chance of shrinking or cracking? I was thinking of a handle design that would minimize the contact area with the guard/ferrule area, maybe one pin, and once I have it fitted leave it over sized for a period of time before the final shaping, could that make it possible to use? I've always loved the way Ebony looks on a blades especially with nickel silver furnishings, it looks so classy and the contrast between the jet black and the shiny silver is just plain sexy! But if I can get the same thing with African black wood, why take the risk, right? Thanks for your input, Rex
 
I know some makers who have used Macassar Ebony for years. I have used it some. One I made last year cracked in a few weeks and I replaced the handle with black paper Micarta. I don't think ebony can be stabilized.

Almost any natural material can swell, shrink or crack (even when stabilized only to a lesser degree). There are lots of 100 year old knives out there with wood, bone and ivory handles that were made long before anyone ever heard of stabilization. You will see few, if any, that don't have cracks or signs of shrinkage. It doesn't necessarily ruin the knife. It often gives it character.
 
McClellan Made Blades said:
Larry,
Thanks for the response, he said it's Ceyleon, I'm not sure how to spell it, he bought it from a guitar store that went out of business. Charlie at one time was a master wood worker, making everything from furniture to pool cues, although he never worked with Ebony before, so I believe his moisture meter is probably a good one. I'm pretty sure it's not stabilized. I'm hoping I can buy some of it, provided stabilizing it would decrease the shrinkage, and make it usable without the problems of shrinking. How much could that cost? This wood is incredibly dense, and pretty oily, so how much of the chemicals can it absorb? I appreciate you taking the time to answer these questions, I've bought some great wood from you before so I feel like you know what you're talking about. Thanks Bud!, Rex
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Rex,
If its Ceylon then it should be the blackest of black. Ive used it, and didnt have any problems, but it was a very small piece. You should take a look at some of Matt Lamey's work. He has posted quite a few blades with ceylon on it. Maybe even send him a PM and ask him what his methods are. Of all the ebonies out there, ceylon has the richest blackest color in my opinion. Let us know what you find out. Larry

Also I would say that hidden tang / stick tang construction without pins will give you the best shot at not having issues. The scandi folks across the pond use unstabilized wood all the time, but its not pinned to steel, and if it moves its harder to see. Again mileage may vary.
 
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I made a knife with Macassar just a few weeks ago. I was unaware of problems with shrinking until reading this thread. I'll keep an eye on it.
 
Mike Carter said:
You will see few, if any, that don't have cracks or signs of shrinkage. It doesn't necessarily ruin the knife. It often gives it character.
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Mike,
That's somthing I didn't consider, the natural progression that this wood makes giving it a more unique quality about it, that is a consideration. If I use it will only be for personal use, I've been thinking I need another knife! It would look awesome on my first folder that's in it's beginning stages of being made, hmmm, I think that would be SWEET! Thanks Bud, Rex
 
Shaughnessy said:
Rex,
If its Ceylon then it should be the blackest of black. Ive used it, and didnt have any problems, but it was a very small piece. You should take a look at some of Matt Lamey's work. He has posted quite a few blades with ceylon on it. Maybe even send him a PM and ask him what his methods are. Of all the ebonies out there, ceylon has the richest blackest color in my opinion. Let us know what you find out. Larry

Also I would say that hidden tang / stick tang construction without pins will give you the best shot at not having issues. The scandi folks across the pond use unstabilized wood all the time, but its not pinned to steel, and if it moves its harder to see. Again mileage may vary.
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Larry,
I know who Matt Lamey is, but I've not met him personally, Charlie and Matt are big buddies, and he lives not too far from me, I probably should have been to see him sooner, but just haven't had the time. He is an awesome maker, his stuff is beautiful, and I love his work. I'm not sure if Charlie asked him about it, I'll check and see. I keep thinking about this, and I have to think that with all the folks that use this stuff, somebody has to have figured out something about this wood to make it work, some sort of process that predicts some of the things that causes the wood to react the way it does, not so much the things to do to keep it from happening, but more things NOT to do that will increase the chances of keeping it from totally busting. Like Mike said it doesn't always crack all the way. At this point it will only be used for my personal stuff, I really don't want to take the chance, that a knife I sell come back from this happening, unless maybe letting the customer know that it will and that it is NOT covered under my warranty. If they then decide to buy it, it's not on me, at that point. And, I think I would put a very strong disclaimer on it as well, advising them that while it does look incredible there are other more stabile options out there, I really don't like doing that, because as my warranty is now, I cover everything short of abuse. That's the way I like to do business, make my knives like a tank, to the best of my ability, and if for any other reason (than abuse), I take care of it. That seems fair to me, but knowing that this could happen, and using it anyway, seems like asking for failure, I think I'm going to side with Ed on this one, other than using it for my own knives, I'm thinking even for that, the only way I will give it a shot is if I can get it at a great price, and even then use it sparingly, on small blades like folders. Thanks for all the information, I appreciate it, Rex
 
Rex,
Lots of differences between the ebonies. There are 100's of different types. If its Ceylon (Diospyros ebenum) from India / Sri Lanka, its more rare than Gabon ((Diospyros dendro) from Africa. At least from what Im seeing in my experience, I believe Gabon is what is more common. Im guessing lots of folks have had issues with Gabon cracking and moving, but I don't know. I dont use Gabon, but I know Ceylon is nice stuff, and makes African Blackwood (also known as Black Ivory) look much lighter in color. Like I said its the blackest of black. Theres always gonna be a risk of movement. Your talking straight grained ebony, what happens with your burl pieces where the grain goes everywhere? I will be cutting some highly figured ironwood very soon. Its Michigan Ironwood ---> Hop Hornbeam Good luck Rex and I hope you post some pics of the stuff your looking at. Id like to see them. Larry
 
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Hey Larry,
I hope to pick some up this weekend, if it's the right price I will, I'm not going to pay a premium price for this wood. Knowing what I know now! Thanks to everyone for your input and for sharing your experiences, without this forum, I would have made a very BAD decision! THANK YOU DAWGS!!!, Rex
 
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