Lets talk the Business of Knifemaking.

Austin Thrasher

Austin Thrasher

Well-Known Member
Ok so I am curious to hear any and all suggestions about how to grow a knife business. I’m not necessarily talking about going full time. I’m not ready for that yet. I guess my question could go a lot of different ways but as soon as my new shop is built and I start filling the few orders that I currently have, I want to start really progressing into more advanced work. What I’m saying is, I want to go from making$100 knives to 500+ dollar knives. I realize there will pbe a curve and some skill that will need developed in order to get there but assuming that the quality was there, how do I go about getting more orders, clientele, and actually start developing my side hustle into a future full-time career. Like I said, I realize I’m not there yet but if all I do is dream and never really begin to work towards those dreams, I’ll be stuck in the daily grind and that’s not where I want to be. I take great inspiration from Ben Franklin when he said to make your vocation your vacation. I went to college and got my machining degree having never seen a mill or lathe in my life until I got there lol. I just knew that there were decent jobs in the area for machining and that I could use the machine tools to make knives and other cool stuff. So for right now I work in a machine shop and enjoy it for the most part but it still is not my vocational vacation lol. It is definitely not my dream of entrepreneurship and self-employment. So what tips or suggestions do y’all have? In a recent thread the discussion was that the handle is mainly what sold the knife to the average user, so will higher quality materials help me to get prices up? I plan on learning how to do file work and also some engraving for wire inlay to really try to start elevating my work over run-of-the-mill makers. I’m rambling. Anyway, any and everything would be appreciated. From the actual business side of things to hands-on suggestions. I’d love to hear what you have to say.
 
Step one is to make sure you're on top of your quality control. There are more knifemaker s now than ever. The vast majority of them are making 3 piece knives in the $100 to $300 range. You need to be better than most of them to stand out.

After that, step two is just plain old hussle. Post your knives on every forum you can. Instagram is very powerful. Get t shirts with something about your knives on them and wear them everywhere you go. Its a lot of work soliciting business at first. Be prepared to educate people as to why they would pay so much for a knife.

DO NOT get sucked into the wholesaling to retailers trap. You won't be profitable doing that.
 
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Be patient and passionate about your knives. I honestly have been very fortunate to not have had to try to hard to sell my work. Social media, and word of mouth have brought all the work I can handle. Keep in mind I don't make very many knives, and do it because I love it not because I need to.
 
Have you started looking into what you need in your state for a LLC. Maybe some sort of liability insurance. A wise man once said,,, Ya can't fix stupid.
 
I will echo what John and Ty have said. If your not using the forums and social media you are not doing yourself any favors. Those platforms are huge. I honestly dont sell a ton of knives right now I simply do not have the time at this point in my life but the ones I do sell are usually sold before they are done. I like posting work I progress pics on my Instagram account and usually get a dm about purchasing it before it is done. Fit and finish are key. High quality materials and good designs. I am more in the category John described $200-$300 knives. I sell as many local as I do on the web. People like a local handmade product.
 
The following is mostly personal observation, but making a living off of full time knife making is an interesting study to be sure. As said before, there are more makers now than their probably ever has been, though that doesn't necessarily mean the customer base or "pie" is smaller, especially when you factor in the internet, social media, forums etc...

Granted, you should understand there are probably quite a few "full time makers" out there who wouldn't be full time makers if they didn't have additional income, whether it's spousal income, income from a second job, teaching classes, etc.. Some also have their houses already paid off from previous careers, or have little to no debt. For other makers, it's a lot about who you know or who you've networked with, social circles, etc... Others are hustling at every show they can get to and putting knives into as many hands as they can.
Many makers have put in decades of work to garner a modest following, while it seems like some become near overnight successes. Lately, I've been seeing a lot of nearly "unusable" knives being sold for several hundred dollars a piece, while other guys are sitting on some pretty amazing work for weeks without a bite. I'm thinking a lot of that probably boils down to online personas and marketing. I suppose there's also a but for every seat... ;)

At any rate, there's a lot of things to factor in if you're going to try to make a living at it. Get used to putting in 100 hour weeks. If you have a family to support, that's a whole other realm of consideration.

Another thing to think about: there are a lot of phenomenal knife makers who are absolutely terrible businessmen. On the other hand, there are some less than stellar makers who are phenomenal businessmen. It definitely takes a mix of talent in both areas.
 
First things first, get your knives to the point where the quality is high enough that you would feel comfortable asking money for them.

That's harder than it sounds. At least it is for me. It took me quite a long time to get the point where I thought my knives were good enough to be given away. And I have yet to sell one.

A knifemakers reputation is everything and if you start charging money for knives that are not of sufficient quantity, your reputation may suffer. And suffer badly.

Before I ever thought about making a knife, I was a longtime knife collector. There are few makers' knives I would never own because of their reputation or because of personal experience. And it's not just knife quality. There are a lot of things that can sour people on you or your knives.

Just make sure your knives are ready and so are you because once you get a bad name in the knife community, you may never be able to clean it up.
 
Thanks for the comments fellas. Any big moves would definitely be in the future so now I’m just mainly trying to plot my path and order the steps I should take to get where I wanna be. I hope I’m not getting the horse ahead of the cart...
 
Motor City Mike said:
First things first, get your knives to the point where the quality is high enough that you would feel comfortable asking money for them.

That's harder than it sounds. At least it is for me. It took me quite a long time to get the point where I thought my knives were good enough to be given away. And I have yet to sell one.

A knifemakers reputation is everything and if you start charging money for knives that are not of sufficient quantity, your reputation may suffer. And suffer badly.

Before I ever thought about making a knife, I was a longtime knife collector. There are few makers' knives I would never own because of their reputation or because of personal experience. And it's not just knife quality. There are a lot of things that can sour people on you or your knives.

Just make sure your knives are ready and so are you because once you get a bad name in the knife community, you may never be able to clean it up.
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Mike I think your knives are good enough to giveaway....I will message you my address :D
 
I've been doing this part time for 1 1/2 years now and am starting to see what other makers have talked about. You can get bogged down with orders and not have the time to make the knives you would like to make. Not to say that getting the orders is bad or that I would do it completely different, as those orders have paid the knifemaking expenses along the way.

I have started stressing to customers that knifemaking is just part time and it may take a while before I can get the knife finished for them. This gives me the chance to work on designs that I have been wanting to make or fulfill orders, whichever I feel like working on. I think it is important to stay in contact with customers and let them know how their order is progressing, especially if life gets busy and it is taking longer than expected.

On the business side of it, insurance has already been mentioned. If you are going to run the knifemaking as a business, good book keeping is a must. I would recommend talking to an accountant/tax person. They should be able to tell you what you will need to get started and recommend a good process for keeping records. Going through a business audit is not fun, believe me, having your book keeping squared away from the start is worth it.
 
GeneK said:
I have started stressing to customers that knifemaking is just part time and it may take a while before I can get the knife finished for them. This gives me the chance to work on designs that I have been wanting to make or fulfill orders, whichever I feel like working on. I think it is important to stay in contact with customers and let them know how their order is progressing, especially if life gets busy and it is taking longer than expected.
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This is the exact reason that I stopped taking orders. My real job is 60+ hours a week, going home and spending another 5 to 8 hours in the the shop is not fun. Be careful what you wish for..... only take the orders that you KNOW can be done in a reasonable time.
 
I'll try not to get too long winded, but having done this for 30+ years, maybe I can offer some of my insights. I've been part-time, full-time, part-time again, and for the last 15 years, back to full time. Here's a solid fact of being a full-time/sole source of income knifemker...... it's a TOUGH way to make a living. Nobody needs a custom knife, it is a luxury item, and as such, our sales success or failure as knifemakers is based on customers/clients disposable income. When the economy is down, or when people don't have disposable (or even perceive they don't have disposable) income, knife sales decline/drop. As with any craft, reputation within the given arena is everything. It's been mentioned already about "quality"..... I would add that not only does the quality need to be there, but also the reputation. That in itself takes a lot of time and effort. Even if both quality and a good reputation are present, it doesn't make any of us immune to the ups and downs of the economy.

To my knowledge, there are only a handful of full-time knifemakers who make what I consider a good income based solely on the knife world......and they do so by being diversified. What does that mean? It means they not only make/sell knives, but also do things and/or sell things related to knives. Using myself as an example...... I offer custom knives, Damascus pens, forging hammers, grinder platens, Damscus billets, and teach Bladesmithing/Knifemaking classes. In addition to that, I have a military retirement coming in every month, which means my medical insurance needs are met, and my home/property is paid off.......so my monthly requirements for income are somewhat less then they could be. All of that took a lot of years doing something else besides Bladesmithing/knifemaking, and a lot of planning, in order to get to the point that I could/can be a full-time Bladesmith/Knifemaker. Other makers whom I consider self sufficient have the commonality of diversity too...... some make hardware, some have "factory" deals, sell supplies, and a whole host of other income sources related to knives that affords them the level of financial success they require.

More to the point, my career as a Bladesmith/Knifemaker has taken me full circle..... I've been through the beginning time, when things were tough, and I made/sold a lot of knives in the $100-$200 range, then went through a time where I carried a 3-4 year backlog of orders for over 10 years, and nearly quit, because every single moment I had in the shop was working on an order....and it simply wasn't any fun at all. When I retired from the military, and cleaned up the backlog, I made a conscience decision that I wanted this to fun again..... and to that end I am now VERY picky about taking orders. If the order is interesting/challenging, an something I want to do, I take it. If not, I decline the order, usually suggesting another knifemaker, and I make the knives I want to make, and offer them for sale.

Looking back over my own experiences, my advice to anyone who is not in a fully stable financial position, would be to keep your "day job", and build knives part time, at least until you are in such a position financially, that several months without a specific level of knife sales wouldn't bother you financially.
I've seen families destroyed, homes and properties lost, and lives left in financial ruin when individuals have prematurely jumped into Full-time knifemaking, without carefully planning and thinking it through. Even if it's well thought out, and carefully planned, most find that once it becomes their "vocation"....the "vacation" aspect it lost if they must rely on it as a sole source of income.
 
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Great question. Lots and lots of correct answers, even “opposite” answers can be right.

Some points to consider. Some of these points people will disagree with and I get that and they can be right also.

Stop taking orders. Make what you want. Your quality will improve faster.

Learn to make as good of a sheath as you do knives. The same knife with the better sheath sells first.

Better materials and tested proven process differentiates the beginner from the veteran maker.

Don’t make one kind of knife. Stretch your skills with purpose.

As a machinist you should use those skills to makes precise fitting fixtures like guards, pommels, bolsters, etc.

There is more money in folders right now than 3 part knives if that motivates you. As a machinist folders should be calling out to you.

Post in social media and show lots of WIPs. Use multiple channels. You gotta give to get in this game.

Military veterans seem to do well with aggressive knives. Hunters get hunting knives, chefs get kitchen knives. Tie in a style that fits your life.

Pursue quality until you want to puke. Then double down on quality.

Show your work to better makers and ask for honest feedback, not hugs and kisses. I’ve mailed knives to guys just to have them look at them.

Avoid setting up at gun shows.

Don’t get hung up on achieving a price point. You can’t make a hundred dollar knife yesterday and then a $400 knife today. Ramp up $25 a time until you and your customers are comfortable. This may be every other or every tenth knife. It’s usuall not an even upslope on pricing.

Practice different grinds, plunges, wheel sizes, Swedges, shapes, sizes, metals.

Handles sell more knives than grinds.

Don’t sell every knife. Some you just don’t want out there at any price.
 
rather than wish to go from $100 to $500 knives, look at this from a real business side. first, detail all costs. i will look in the site archives and find a thread we did 4 or 5 years ago that covered that. what we found was the largest costs were time, sanding belts, and handle material. unless you are using PM steel, steel for the blade was 4th or 5th.
now look at reducing costs. are you using your time the wisest? are you doing single knives or batches? if batch, how many is easy to handle. example: cut out the six blanks of your batch. debur and cleanup all 6. set up drilling jig for tang holes. drill all six, adjust jig repeat. set up grinder or file jig and start bevel. do all six before changing set up to next operation. Heat Treat(high carbon or basic stainless like AEB-L or 13C26): one blade will take me about an hour from furnace on to quench. 6 blades takes about 2 hours. tempering, whether 1 or a dozen, another 2 to 4 hours. just some ideas. using precision ground flat stock as blade material may cost a little more up front, but you gain in not having to remove mill scale, worry about flatness/squareness or doing extended heat treats. talk to blade material suppliers about the steel. steel X from vendor A may HT quickly while steel X from vendor B may require multiple normalizing/grain refining cycles.
make trial blades and do some testing. just because jonny jones does 6 or 7 normalizing/grain refining cycles followed by triple quenching does not mean you have to do it also. start with most basic HT, blade into hot furnace, wait 5 to 10 minutes, quench, temper for an hour, quench, temper for an hour. clean the blade up and get hardness checked.
again, just some ideas
 
If you read that thread Scott posted there is a lot of good info. But one key point is this: you must know your actual costs, but your sale prices should not be based on your costs.

Amost everyone (new makers) underestimates their actual costs to make a knife. Why? Because you cannot buy only the minimum materials to make one knife.

Go try to make one pie from scratch, with zero ingredients in the pantry. $60 later you have one pie and what’s left of five pounds of flour, two pounds of sugar, a pound of butter, a dozen eggs, a bag of apples, $7 worth of cinnamon...

That’s how knifemaking works, too. You have no idea what a single knife costs until you add up every cent you paid for materials and shipping and then divide it bu how many knives you got out of it, plus waste.
 
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