Proposed Ivory Ban
- Thread starter jkf96a
- Start date
J. Doyle
Dealer - Purveyor
Here is an excellent article in Forbes:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/dougbandow/2013/01/21/when-you-ban-the-sale-of-ivory-you-ban-elephants/
Good photos of the schreger lines - thanks for posting.
Ken H>
http://www.forbes.com/sites/dougbandow/2013/01/21/when-you-ban-the-sale-of-ivory-you-ban-elephants/
Good photos of the schreger lines - thanks for posting.
Ken H>
TacticallySharp
KNIFE MAKER
I sent this email against the total ban as suggested on another forum I am on.
Dear Advisory Committee,
I stand against a total ban of all ivory sales in the US.
As called for in the Presidential Executive Order I ask that the recommendations continue to allow for "legal and legitimate commerce.”
The ivory market in the US is stable and /or declining, and the seizure records indicate that a high proportion of the seizures made were personal effects lacking the correct paperwork, not the “blood tusks” spoken about in the media. The Elephant Trade Information System (ETIS) analysis indicated that the amount of ivory (by weight) seized annually has not increased in recent years. WE are not the consumers of the poached ivory. Therefore banning ivory sales within the US will do nothing to save the remaining world population of elephants.
CITES MIKE report (Monitoring the Illegal Killing of Elephants) September 2013 report, page 64 analysis states "Africa's elephant populations are managed sustainably" and that in 2013 the quota for permits for legal elephants was 1350 animals. There is legal trade that can be monitored with DNA testing and permitting. Enforcing and policing a ban would use funds that should be used to support the ban on imports already in effect.
I fully support the CITES rules, closing international borders to elephant ivory trade, a law already in effect that should be fully supported and enforced. I stand against a total ban of all ivory commerce within our United States borders, a decision that would be an enforcement nightmare. Like prohibition it will cause a new wave of illicit commerce where a legitimate one now exists. Museums, antique dealers, collectors, artisans and individual citizens have invested in a legal and valuable material. Sanctioned trade in ivory that is legal (culled and pre-ban) and comes from unthreatened sources (mammoth, boar, warthog, antique and recycled products) can pose no possible threat to elephant herds in the wild.
I believe our mutual goals are the same and a solution can be reached. Please keep the focus where it belongs. To increase the elephant population the killing must be stopped in Africa and at its borders.
Respectfully Submitted,
Please send one to ACWT@FWS.GOV before December 28th when they file their report.
Dear Advisory Committee,
I stand against a total ban of all ivory sales in the US.
As called for in the Presidential Executive Order I ask that the recommendations continue to allow for "legal and legitimate commerce.”
The ivory market in the US is stable and /or declining, and the seizure records indicate that a high proportion of the seizures made were personal effects lacking the correct paperwork, not the “blood tusks” spoken about in the media. The Elephant Trade Information System (ETIS) analysis indicated that the amount of ivory (by weight) seized annually has not increased in recent years. WE are not the consumers of the poached ivory. Therefore banning ivory sales within the US will do nothing to save the remaining world population of elephants.
CITES MIKE report (Monitoring the Illegal Killing of Elephants) September 2013 report, page 64 analysis states "Africa's elephant populations are managed sustainably" and that in 2013 the quota for permits for legal elephants was 1350 animals. There is legal trade that can be monitored with DNA testing and permitting. Enforcing and policing a ban would use funds that should be used to support the ban on imports already in effect.
I fully support the CITES rules, closing international borders to elephant ivory trade, a law already in effect that should be fully supported and enforced. I stand against a total ban of all ivory commerce within our United States borders, a decision that would be an enforcement nightmare. Like prohibition it will cause a new wave of illicit commerce where a legitimate one now exists. Museums, antique dealers, collectors, artisans and individual citizens have invested in a legal and valuable material. Sanctioned trade in ivory that is legal (culled and pre-ban) and comes from unthreatened sources (mammoth, boar, warthog, antique and recycled products) can pose no possible threat to elephant herds in the wild.
I believe our mutual goals are the same and a solution can be reached. Please keep the focus where it belongs. To increase the elephant population the killing must be stopped in Africa and at its borders.
Respectfully Submitted,
Please send one to ACWT@FWS.GOV before December 28th when they file their report.
Bruce Bump
Forum Owner-Moderator
I buy from David Warther. This is the letter he sent to all his customers. I clicked on this email address and expressed my opinion about a total ban. I see a reason to ban elephant ivory if it will slow poachers but I can't see any reason to ban fossil ivory.
Hello Everyone!
Ivory Ban - The Presidential Advisory Committee that met 12/16/13 does plan
to recommend a total ban on ivory sales, within the US, to the task force on
Wildlife Trafficking. If you want to oppose that action please email
ACWT@FWS.GOV before December 28th when they file their report. I have
attached a letter you can use but feel free to change it as may fit your
interests and work.
This is not a ban on new ivory but rather a ban on ALL ivory that is in any
form. This includes pre-ban and antique ivory in musical instruments,
knives, guns, cues, etc. and will make Grandma's piano illegal to sell if it
has ivory keys. This sounds ludicrous but it is true. If this passes then it
will take the form of a bill that will be set before Congress in 2014.
Presently this ban is to include fossil mammoth ivory as well as pre-ban and
antique elephant ivory.
Please forward this information to everyone you think may want to voice
their opposition to this type of government control.
Sincerely ,
David Warther
2561 Crestview Dr. NW
Dover , Ohio
44622
Phone : 330-343-1865
www.guitarpartsandmore.com ( website )
www.warther.org (More interesting website )
Hello Everyone!
Ivory Ban - The Presidential Advisory Committee that met 12/16/13 does plan
to recommend a total ban on ivory sales, within the US, to the task force on
Wildlife Trafficking. If you want to oppose that action please email
ACWT@FWS.GOV before December 28th when they file their report. I have
attached a letter you can use but feel free to change it as may fit your
interests and work.
This is not a ban on new ivory but rather a ban on ALL ivory that is in any
form. This includes pre-ban and antique ivory in musical instruments,
knives, guns, cues, etc. and will make Grandma's piano illegal to sell if it
has ivory keys. This sounds ludicrous but it is true. If this passes then it
will take the form of a bill that will be set before Congress in 2014.
Presently this ban is to include fossil mammoth ivory as well as pre-ban and
antique elephant ivory.
Please forward this information to everyone you think may want to voice
their opposition to this type of government control.
Sincerely ,
David Warther
2561 Crestview Dr. NW
Dover , Ohio
44622
Phone : 330-343-1865
www.guitarpartsandmore.com ( website )
www.warther.org (More interesting website )
Joel Brazzoni
Well-Known Member
Well said, I agree with your reasoning.
Mark D. Zalesky
Member
Knife World article on ivory ban
You can get a PDF of the cover story on the ivory ban from the April edition of KNIFE WORLD right here:
http://www.knifeworld.com
It presents an overview of what we're looking at, less the background on how the ban won't help elephant populations (that was in last month's article.)
In a practical sense, all elephant ivory that doesn't have paperwork proving it was imported legally, regardless of age, will be illegal to sell. That includes 1830s bowie knives; old ivory handled Randalls, Lovelesses, etc., and your piano (if it has ivory keys). Anything without appropriate paperwork.
It's also 'guilty until proven innocent,' meaning that if you have a knife handled in an interior piece of fossil ivory that LOOKS like elephant ivory, it may be seized and you would have to fight to get it back.
Violations of could be up to a $100,000 fine and a year in Federal Prison -- much worse if you're caught lying about a transaction.
Mark Zalesky
Editor
Knife World magazine
You can get a PDF of the cover story on the ivory ban from the April edition of KNIFE WORLD right here:
http://www.knifeworld.com
It presents an overview of what we're looking at, less the background on how the ban won't help elephant populations (that was in last month's article.)
In a practical sense, all elephant ivory that doesn't have paperwork proving it was imported legally, regardless of age, will be illegal to sell. That includes 1830s bowie knives; old ivory handled Randalls, Lovelesses, etc., and your piano (if it has ivory keys). Anything without appropriate paperwork.
It's also 'guilty until proven innocent,' meaning that if you have a knife handled in an interior piece of fossil ivory that LOOKS like elephant ivory, it may be seized and you would have to fight to get it back.
Violations of could be up to a $100,000 fine and a year in Federal Prison -- much worse if you're caught lying about a transaction.
Mark Zalesky
Editor
Knife World magazine
rhinoknives
Well-Known Member
That is the part that's unclear to me as well.
I wrote my congressman and told him the difference and I suggest that everyone do that no matter what side of the African Elephant ivory you are on. All ancient ivory should not be restricted since these animals are already extinct and many native peoples make their livelihood collecting from the permafrost and then selling Mammoth, Mastodon and Walrus fossilized ivories.
I agree with you there but I also wonder if the bill makes a distinction between mammoth tooth and ivory as the sites I have looked at that have them for sale have them split up.
rhinoknives
Well-Known Member
That's why everyone needs to contact their representatives. So any bill before congress or signed by the president has distinction of the two kinds of ivory.
Mark D. Zalesky
Member
The proposed regulations (it's not a bill, these are amended regulations to the Endangered Species Art put into motion by Executive Order -- no Congress involved here) does focus on elephant ivory --
HOWEVER... the onus is on you to prove that the ivory object the enforcing agent is thinking about seizing is in fact fossil ivory, and not elephant. If you've got a knife with colorful bark ivory, or the schreger lines are visible, you should be in the clear. A light colored piece of interior fossil ivory and they can seize it, and everything else you have, and you too. "It's not elephant ivory? OK, prove it!"
Antique bowie knives, Scagels, Lovelesses, Morans with ivory handles on them cannot be sold without removal of the ivory, the exclusions are essentially impossible to meet for objects made and ivory imported before the ivory trade was regulated. Same with classic pianos, guitars and other stringed instruments, you get the picture. Their owners won't want them seen or photographed, for obvious reasons. That's a loss for all of us.
If your customers lose a lot of value from their past knife collecting 'investments', will they be so eager to come back to that well? There are a lot of ramifications here, it isn't so simple as saying 'I don't use elephant ivory, it's not my problem.'
The real thing to consider is that this ban won't help the elephant population at all, and a pretty strong case can be made that it will actually hurt it. [Personally, I'd like to see 'em create an open season on hunting poachers, but that's not likely to happen.] So if it won't help, why are we going to make criminals out of a large segment of the population?
Mark Z
Mark D. Zalesky
Member
Call to Action -- comments due Monday, March 17
IMPORTANT -- For those who'd like their opinions heard
On March 20, 2014 the Presidential Task Force's Advisory Council on Wildlife Trafficking, the group that has proposed the ban on antique/vintage/pre-ban ivory, will hold an important hearing. Concerned persons who cannot attend should submit written comments about the ban by Monday, March 17. Comments can be e-mailed to Mr. Cade London, Special Assistant, USFWS International Affairs, at cade_london@fws.gov.
Ideas to include in your letter and a detailed article explaining the proposed ban can be found here: Info on Ivory Ban
Mark Z
IMPORTANT -- For those who'd like their opinions heard
On March 20, 2014 the Presidential Task Force's Advisory Council on Wildlife Trafficking, the group that has proposed the ban on antique/vintage/pre-ban ivory, will hold an important hearing. Concerned persons who cannot attend should submit written comments about the ban by Monday, March 17. Comments can be e-mailed to Mr. Cade London, Special Assistant, USFWS International Affairs, at cade_london@fws.gov.
Ideas to include in your letter and a detailed article explaining the proposed ban can be found here: Info on Ivory Ban
Mark Z
Mark D. Zalesky
Member
Last Day to Voice Your Opposition to the Government's Advisory Council
Today is the last day to email letters for the Advisory Council's meeting on the ivory ban -- please take a few minutes to do so. Then, why not cc your concerns to your congressmen and the White House?
These new regulations are much more significant than just a ban on the sale of "pre-ban" vintage and antique ivory and objects made from it – they're an assault on our fundamental rights as citizens. They stand to affects everyone who owns objects with any type of ivory in them (even fossil) as well as everyone who sells knives to people who do. Don't wait until your opportunity to speak up has passed!
Mark Z
Today is the last day to email letters for the Advisory Council's meeting on the ivory ban -- please take a few minutes to do so. Then, why not cc your concerns to your congressmen and the White House?
These new regulations are much more significant than just a ban on the sale of "pre-ban" vintage and antique ivory and objects made from it – they're an assault on our fundamental rights as citizens. They stand to affects everyone who owns objects with any type of ivory in them (even fossil) as well as everyone who sells knives to people who do. Don't wait until your opportunity to speak up has passed!
Mark Z