The Newell .45 cal front loader

J.McDonald Knives said:
I'm dying to see the ballistics of this pistol.
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Ballistics? What are ballistics? Theres no exact science here. Ya put some black powder down the barrel and stuff a patch and lead ball down on top of it and a cap on the nipple, aim and shoot. Wait until the smoke clears to see if it quit moving yet. :D
 
J.McDonald Knives said:
Correction, can't wait to see this pistol shooting.:D:p
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J. I give you some homework: see if you can find any ballistics and recommended powder measurements for light and heavy loads. I will be using Pyrodex P (psitol) black powder substitute, size FFG and a .451 ball
 
Bruce Bump said:
J. I give you some homework: see if you can find any ballistics and recommended powder measurements for light and heavy loads. I will be using Pyrodex P (psitol) black powder substitute, size FFG and a .451 ball
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I'll see what I can find. Never done any homework for black powder before.
 
Bruce
its easy to see that you are good at what you do because your hands aren't beat all to hell like mine.
jokeing aside i love you work, and would like to know more about the way that guard is made.

Mike
 
Mike Craddock said:
Bruce
its easy to see that you are good at what you do because your hands aren't beat all to hell like mine.
jokeing aside i love you work, and would like to know more about the way that guard is made.

Mike
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I should have taken pictures of the guard, sorry about that. Basically its just cut from 1018 and slotted in the milling machine and hand fitted with a file to the tang. The contouring is roughed in on the grinder and finished off with the dremel and scotch brite wheel.

Neosporin and heavy duty bandaids. Thats my secret to nice hands. Mom wanted me to be a dentist.
 
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Bruce,

Hey no problem. It's been some years now but I was heavy into shooting in the past so It helps when you know ahead of time where to look for info.

I'm sure you know this but it should be pointed out for other readers anytime talk of Blackpowder loads are discussed.

Blackpowder (and equivelents like Pyrodex) are measured by VOLUME NOT WEIGHT !!! If you weigh BP you'll be getting a very serious overcharge!

Go here- http://www.pyrodex.com/ Then click the products link... then the Pyrodex link... then the Granular link. Here we find the info for Pyrodex P which is the equivelent to FFFG black powder by VOLUME.

This link will take us to the Goex BlackPowder load data page at Goex's website pertaining to pistols and revolvers- (which you'll notice is for FFFG, or our equvilent)
http://www.goexpowder.com/images/LoadCharts/RB-Pistol-Revolvers.pdf

Now Google tell's me that your .451 lead round ball weighs 138 grains. So going to the chart the closest we can get to that round ball weight is a .44 at 128 grains

10 grains is pretty darn close in bullet weight and with BP probably means basically no difference to us other than a few less FPS velocity. (This is entirely a different situation with metallic cartridges and smokeless powders! but that's a different topic)

Basically your looking at a minumum charge of 25 grains Pyro.P for a muzzle velocity of 730 fps
and a maximum charge of 40 grains for a muzzle velocity of 840 fps

Not a heavy hitter by todays standards but I'm sure it'll blow through a Redcoat no problem.

Yeah Bruce, I had that knife at the house for awhile but it's moved on to greener pastures to be the kid brother to some grown up knives, LOL

The pistol is comming along beatifully by the way !

-Josh
 
Very informative post Josh. Thanks for the work. I'll check these links. I have a 15 grain nozzle and used it on my .36 cal. It was sweet shooting and penetrated well. I've heard 25 grains is a max load for a 45 cal revolver. They have thin webs on the cylinder that can split. This barrel is thick enough to not worry. Basically all I need to know is how many grains of powder to use for a respectable load. So what is your suggestion?
 
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Bruce,

The middle load on their chart calls for 30 grains of powder and a muzzle velocity of 760 FPS.

I'd go with that and have no fears.

There is truly not a big difference between the minimum and maximum loads for this application performance wise. Due to the nature of this perticular pistol were talking about it's basic function is very short range on thin skinned targets. With lead round balls at the velocities were talking about any of these loads should give near equal performance on a live target.

For target shooting each firearm will have a mind of it's own with some prefering hotter loads and others lower velocity. When you start considering accuracy there are many variables that come into play.

You are spot on about the revolvers ! Chamber pressure is THE factor that must be considered but like you said youve got a solid barrel that is basically a tiny cannon with the only weak link being the primer nipple. Without a doubt your pistol would handle a double charge with no problems other than some flash out the sides of the hammer and at worst tiny shards of the cap flying back. Not that you want to find out of course just that I think you've build a very safe design.

I'll post again in a minute I've got to look up a formula real quick

-Josh
 
Bruce.

If I calculated correctly the medium load will have a muzzle energy of 176 ft. lbs.

This is roughly equal to a .22magnum or slightly less than a .38 special. I'd bet the max load at 800 fps would roughly equal a .38 special and like I said before, either of these should be plenty.

Of couse this is not directly relative to penetration due to bullet size and weight but I would guess that at this level with a round ball your basically punching a 3/4" hole in the target once the ball flattens out a little. Basically it will seriously ruin someones day !

No problem on the info. Took about 5 minutes to track down the figures.

-Josh
 
Back to work on the frames. I decided to put rear bolsters on both the bowie frame and pistol frame. It will help strengthen the bowie where the take down nut has been drilled out and also help make the knife and gun share something to tie them as a set with another place for engraving. I also like the idea for the grips shape being flat at the pommel and round on the top rather than round on both ends. It also takes some stress off the small pins and screws that hold the grips onto the frames. The bolsters are smallish because of weight factors. This aint no girlie gun except for maybe Uma Thurman.

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Wow, Bowies and pistols and Uma Thurman. You know how to make a snowbound fellers day, Bruce. We have reached a high of 21 degrees here and have had light snow on and off for 3 days now. Supposed to be close to 0 overnight which is quite cold for this part of KY. But I'm born and raised in northern Illinois and I love this stuff. So does my old Ford 4wd pickup. We have a huge cauldron of venison stew simmering slowly so you all are welcome to come for supper. Denny
 
Man Denny I know what you mean! It's trying hard to get up to double digits here today; it's been below zero for the last few days. We have more snow on the ground than I can remember and I've lived here for 20 years. ('Course, I can't remember all 20 of them very well. ;) Getting up there in age.)

Bruce, perhaps you should just blow Gabe off on this set (no offense Gabe :)) and send it to me. Next time Uma drops over I'll let her play with it.
 
This thread just keeps getting better and better every day.
 
First off, Great Job, Bruce!! I've learned more from this than I could of ever imagined. Keep it up.

Secondly, Hey Denny is that stew made from one of them lil ditch rabbits you got down there or is it a true Illinois corn fed brute. Up here to feed an army we use 100 pounds of taters, 50 pounds of carrots, 50 or 60 good onions and a quarter of a deer. HA HA HA

Keep warm guys.
Steve
 
Thanks guys.
Its 33 degrees here and overcast with a couple rain showers off and on. You guys back east are getting all the cold weather. I did make a double batch of my homegrown chili with sweet onions. We have a new grandson fresh from Jamaica so I hope they bring him over tonight. I bet he's never had chili before. He sure is a cute little guy. Smart too. Thanks for the offer Denton. someday I'm goin to take you up on that.
 
Yep, it's all very interesting :) But right now, i'm more interested in that knife and gun ;) (my girl is next to me right now, so no Uma comments from me :) )

It's shaping up really nicely Mr. Bump, i can't wait to see the next progress.

And btw, it's about 2-4 degrees here in CZ...

Ondrej
 
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